elvisimprsntr Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Thanks for that. I hadn’t seen that before. A couple questions… did they bring anything to market under Nokia name? If not, could that potential be lessened by the current group buying Insteon/SH? It seems as if Smartlabs must have realized there were insurmountable issues with dual mode mesh and they abandoned power line technology. Should we expect new devices from Insteon to be RF only? The Nokia spec has 2.4GHz as well as Bluetooth. That sounds like Thread compatibility. The Nokia products where never made available. Since the Nokia devices support Insteon RF, WiFi/BT it could theoretically support thread and matter, but I believe those require proprietary silicon which would need to be added to the design. That will require more non recurring investment. Matter also requires expensive certification, so it’s not much different than Apple HomeKit and MiFi certification. What ever the new Insteon team does they will need to eventually embrace matter if they want to succeed. The problem is finding the funding when you have no income coming in. They will need more VC investment, who will be looking for a quick return on investment.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, apostolakisl said: The vast majority of businesses know their best customers are their current customers. I'm sure any marketing consultant that Insteon might hire at this point would focus heavily on the current customer base. Repeat business is the cheapest to attain and repeat customers also tend to be referral sources. You already have their email, delivery address, and you market to them for basically free. The cost of attaining new customers is generally significant tp the bottom line, especially in consumer electronics. It sounds like your "fresh" look is just decora switches with a different gloss? I don't know, you don't like the "click". Not sure, I like the click, but I would be OK with a different click. Insteon switches as they are sit right next to regular old home depot decora switches and the color and texture is the same. The led's are the only difference. The Nokia line appears to just do away with the leds, not sure, only seen pictures of them. If the color and texture match, fine. I would not want a different set of leds, no leds is fine. Different leds would mean I have to replace all the Insteon with the Nokia, at least in that room. I don't want a mix and match, and I suspect most people would say the same. Existing customers are important which is why backwards compatibility is important. Having a fresh design also reinvigorates their base. If existing customers were buying old insteon like that, they would've stayed in business. New customers obviously weren't enough. Continuing with the same stale lineup only serves to ensure the same results as previous iterations. When it comes to modern designs, the Nokia switches fits in much better with any decor. Not only that, they're ready to go as is. They can come to market with them while working to enhance them in any manner they like. In regards to the devices, they are matte along with matching screwless Wallplates. The paddle and keypads have a small led on the side vs a while row. Edited June 13, 2022 by lilyoyo1
MrBill Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 20 minutes ago, ryarber said: If not, could that potential be lessened by the current group buying Insteon/SH? Since no one is mentioning this anymore: Nokia is likely a dead deal. The former CEO of smartlabs, Rob Lilleness was a Nokia alum. Rob deleted his LinkedIn.. but before he did he came from Nokia before his confusingly named capital group purchased Smartlabs and ran it down the drain.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 28 minutes ago, ryarber said: Thanks for that. I hadn’t seen that before. A couple questions… did they bring anything to market under Nokia name? If not, could that potential be lessened by the current group buying Insteon/SH? It seems as if Smartlabs must have realized there were insurmountable issues with dual mode mesh and they abandoned power line technology. Should we expect new devices from Insteon to be RF only? The Nokia spec has 2.4GHz as well as Bluetooth. That sounds like Thread compatibility. No. It was supposed to be released last year but never was. The devices are dual band not RF only nor did they support Bluetooth/wifi.
AD8BC Posted June 13, 2022 Author Posted June 13, 2022 21 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: It amazes me that so many folks on here complained about insteon and lack of changes but yet, all want things to stay the same as they used to be. If insteons look was that fresh, they never would've struggled (even before COVID). People would've been snapping them up and business would've boomed. ... I'll tell you what... I've heard many complain about the simple aesthetics of the Insteon keypads with the paper labels, but I wouldn't have it any other way. $70 for a keypad was within my range but having custom etched keycaps was not (and I made too many changes to the programming on the 11 keypads I have) and I made some nice colored buttons with a color laser printer. Although I have always thought that the next iteration of the keypad line could be a customizeable touchscreen... a digital 8 "button" (or however many "button") keypad, perhaps with multiple "pages." Of course, as with all things, it seems like an easy and cost-effective device if you are not the one trying to manufacture and market it. But for everything else, I'm not sure what you could do beyond Decora or toggle, other than custom etching the paddle or doing screwless covers.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 1 minute ago, AD8BC said: I'll tell you what... I've heard many complain about the simple aesthetics of the Insteon keypads with the paper labels, but I wouldn't have it any other way. $70 for a keypad was within my range but having custom etched keycaps was not (and I made too many changes to the programming on the 11 keypads I have) and I made some nice colored buttons with a color laser printer. Although I have always thought that the next iteration of the keypad line could be a customizeable touchscreen... a digital 8 "button" (or however many "button") keypad, perhaps with multiple "pages." Of course, as with all things, it seems like an easy and cost-effective device if you are not the one trying to manufacture and market it. But for everything else, I'm not sure what you could do beyond Decora or toggle, other than custom etching the paddle or doing screwless covers. Who has said anything about a switch being something other than decora or toggle? Smartphones are all rectangular but yet there has been multitudes of designs over the years. Ditto with decora style switches. Go to Amazon and type in smart switch. You can see plenty of different ones there. Some are good while some are bad. They're still different designs using the same form.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said: The Nokia products where never made available. Since the Nokia devices support Insteon RF, WiFi/BT it could theoretically support thread and matter, but I believe those require proprietary silicon which would need to be added to the design. That will require more non recurring investment. Matter also requires expensive certification, so it’s not much different than Apple HomeKit and MiFi certification. What ever the new Insteon team does they will need to eventually embrace matter if they want to succeed. The problem is finding the funding when you have no income coming in. They will need more VC investment, who will be looking for a quick return on investment. Nokia devices do not support wifi/Bluetooth nor are they RF only. They use the same underlying insteon dual-band technology as the old line
blueman2 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 On 6/12/2022 at 9:48 AM, MrBill said: I do. I had an Deep Fryer that would bring half the house's insteon down. If your theory is correct, radio should have worked instead. I also agree with MrBill. I have had some powerline noise that caused even dual band switches to become completely non-communicative. There is defintely something going on where powerline noise kills the ability to use RF.
elvisimprsntr Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Nokia devices do not support wifi/Bluetooth nor are they RF only. They use the same underlying insteon dual-band technology as the old lineI thought I saw the bridge had WiFi and BT support.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said: I thought I saw the bridge had WiFi and BT support. It's possible they had a hub unit sent for FCC testing/approval but what was being released does not contain either one. The devices themselves are dualband Edited June 13, 2022 by lilyoyo1
Phil G Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Buy Now: https://www.insteon.com/isy-994i Looks like a new day is dawning!
MrBill Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, Hoosier Daddy said: Buy Now: https://www.insteon.com/isy-994i Looks like a new day is dawning! those are really old sales pages. and the buy buttons don't work. Apparently they've become un-archived.
ryarber Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 It’s a moot point what Nokia would have supported as its just vaporware at this point. It it does speak to previous issues they might have been trying to fix with new hardware. The way computer and phone manufacturers continue to sell new devices is by updating speed and features. It seems to me Insteon could be on a longer development cycle, but the same things should sell. Think if capacitive touch keypads with LED screens, built in motion sensors, some switches with screens or cameras, voice responsive switches, etc. There are ways they could create demand for their devices. But it looks to me that they weren’t doing a whole lot of R&D under the previous management. Just resting on their laurels.
Phil G Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, MrBill said: those are really old sales pages. and the buy buttons don't work. Apparently they've become un-archived. Trying to stay optimistic! ? Those must be extremely old. I believe you but I don't recall ever seeing ISY marketed by Smarthome/Insteon.
Techman Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 The Smarthome web page is now gone, not sure if it's coming back. Insteon.com is still up. The name of the new company is Insteon Technologies, LLC
MrBill Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Techman said: The Smarthome web page is now gone, not sure if it's coming back. Insteon.com is still up. The name of the new company is Insteon Technologies, LLC smarthome.com is an EXTREMELY valuable domain name. A 9 character, easy to remember, easy to type and meaningful domain name and tld .com. They will either auction it for capital, or use it for the same thing.
Techman Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Maybe they'll sell the Smarthome domain, it would give them some nice working capital Looks like the new Company is going to focus on the Insteon Hub and Insteon devices. If they decide to take that direction, I think it would be a good move. For now, they need to focus on quality not quantity.
silverton38 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 I just hope they start making the serial PLM again.
Techman Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 45 minutes ago, silverton38 said: I just hope they start making the serial PLM again. @silverton38 Send them a request via the link below, they want to hear from their users. Tell us what you think — Insteon 3
Geddy Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 While some are on the topic of appearance changes and hopes/wishes for what's to come from the new Insteon... Surprised nobody has mentioned/complained about the change from the old style On/Off to the new On/Off. Used to the On/Off looked just like the dimmer with the LED rail up the side. Now the On/Off is just two LED dots (top and bottom). That bugged the crap out of me because it changed while I was getting into the system. Thankfully they still had some of the old style to swap me out with so all switches in the house have similar appearance. But my "spare" all have the "new"(er) design. With so many claiming that nothing had evolved in the Insteon line I'd say that was a big, yet insignificant difference. I do like the new(er) design because then you know for certain if your switch is an on/off or dimmer, but for visual continuity in our setting I wanted them all to look the same. Yes, they might need/want a new design to show some change over the years, but really...it's a (light) switch. It turns power on/off (usually) to a device. I'd rather it just be pretty than over developed. I think @AD8BC had a great thought about digital labeled keypads. Now that would be fantastic! Although, think of the market (and general population) age. If the font is too small on (digital) KPL buttons would people be able to tell what they were operating? While it might be a great idea I think digital icons would be better suited for use. But certainly mini-led screens in KPL could justify a higher price point. And if it's in an ecosystem that people are relying on they'll buy it. I just hope New Ineston (newston?) can get things into production and available for sales and be successful for all of us existing users (that worry about failing devices...some more than others), but also provide a product that competes with the impulse buy DYI-er that's looking to tell Alexa to turn a light on or off on a whim. They never really felt like a product that would compete in the $20-30 market, but that's where a large market of DIY has gone. Many of us here have certainly gone more advanced (and many WAY more advanced) with the true automation aspect of what Insteon was trying to achieve. But now people just want smart switches to perform dumb tasks. That's not automation!
RPerrault Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 7 hours ago, blueman2 said: I also agree with MrBill. I have had some powerline noise that caused even dual band switches to become completely non-communicative. There is defintely something going on where powerline noise kills the ability to use RF. mwester posted the answer - the real answer - check out his post in this thread now we return to the design/fashion ecosystem/ecorealm discussion 1
Techman Posted June 15, 2022 Posted June 15, 2022 Many of you asked about product availability. We started talking with the factories prior to acquiring Insteon to ensure we were able to obtain components and get the assembly lines ready to go as soon as possible. My confidence was high then and now that I'm in the driver's seat, we are pushing things forward. We aren't ready to share timelines yet but I will let you know as soon as we have something concrete. Those that aren't joining us on this journey, we are disappointed yet understanding given the past experiences. We wish you all the best. On behalf of the whole Insteon team we thank you for your trust in us and please let us know if we can do anything better or if you have any concerns. Best regards, Ken Fairbanks CEO, Insteon Technologies 3
Techman Posted June 15, 2022 Posted June 15, 2022 It was in an email sent out to Hub users. I just came across it, I don't have a Hub, but I did send Ken an email the other day asking hime to keep us apprised as to product availibility.
Pacman Posted June 15, 2022 Posted June 15, 2022 So riddle me this... For those of us that did the panic leap from dead Insteon Hub to Polisy or similar, what would be the merit of ever going back to the Insteon Hub? I actually took the experience of sort of, "Why the hell didn't I do this sooner?" I get that it would be swell if Insteon started manufacturing PLM's, switches, et al again. I've always liked most of the devices, but that period of smart home to incredibly awkward and really dumb home is not something I'd like to repeat.
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