3-way

[sfhutchi]

What is the proper way to setup a 3-way?

Do I need two scenes? One with switch A as the controller, switch B as responder. The second scene reversed?

[Michel Kohanim]

What is the proper way to setup a 3-way?

Do I need two scenes? One with switch A as the controller, switch B as responder. The second scene reversed?

 

sfhutchi,

 

The proper way for a 3-way (all 3 switches control each other) is to drop all the switches in "one" scene as "controllers".

 

With regards,

[Mark Sanctuary]

A three-way is setup by adding all three switches to a scene as "Controllers" which when done each switch in the scene will show as Italic type.

[Sub-Routine]

A three-way is setup by adding all three switches to a scene as "Controllers" which when done each switch in the scene will show as Italic type.

 

Won't this limit me to the same light level from both switches? If I want a different level/rate for each switch I will have to do as sfhutchi suggests and create two scenes, right?

 

Rand

[Michel Kohanim]

A three-way is setup by adding all three switches to a scene as "Controllers" which when done each switch in the scene will show as Italic type.

 

Won't this limit me to the same light level from both switches? If I want a different level/rate for each switch I will have to do as sfhutchi suggests and create two scenes, right?

 

Rand

 

Rand,

 

No. Within the scene, click on the switch that you want to adjust the on-level/ramp rate. To your right, you can adjust the on level and ramp rate for each individual member of that scene. Please let me know if this helped.

 

With kind regards,

[Sub-Routine]

Awesome!

 

It seems that when I Copy Scene Attributes that the devices are set correctly but the sliders are not updated. Even a device Query does not change the sliders.

 

But it does set the switches!

 

Changing the level and rate when the controller is also the responder (the device that has the load) requires resetting the switch by pulling the set button or unplugging the device for a few seconds. I can handle that as I am testing results anyway. So far, So Good!

 

It's pretty scary, I am beginning to understand this ISY thing

 

My daughter sent me a card that had a picture of a man sitting on an *** and notified me that it is okay to sit today so I am re-creating the groups I had on my PLC. HanG ON!

 

Rand

[Michel Kohanim]

Awesome!

 

It seems that when I Copy Scene Attributes that the devices are set correctly but the sliders are not updated. Even a device Query does not change the sliders.

 

But it does set the switches!

 

Changing the level and rate when the controller is also the responder (the device that has the load) requires resetting the switch by pulling the set button or unplugging the device for a few seconds. I can handle that as I am testing results anyway. So far, So Good!

 

It's pretty scary, I am beginning to understand this ISY thing

 

My daughter sent me a card that had a picture of a man sitting on an *** and notified me that it is okay to sit today so I am re-creating the groups I had on my PLC. HanG ON!

 

Rand

 

 

Hi Rand,

 

I hope you are enjoying it!

 

With respect to having to do an air-gap, you would only need to do it:

a. If the controller, within a scene, needs its own on level/ramp rate. The reason for this is that an Insteon Device can not be a controller for itself (the same reason that you cannot put two or more buttons from the same KPL In the one scene). As such, ISY converts your request to a local on level/ramp rate but ONLY for when you are actually/physically clicking on that controller. So, if you have controller A, and 10 other controllers in the same scene, for each controller (when they are the controlling device), the on level and ramp rates are the local on level and ramp rates where as the others are "group" on level/ramp rates

b. If the controller is anything but a KeypadLinc. For KeypadLinc, we do Initialize RAM from EPROM which takes the place of the airgap

 

I am not sure why the sliders do not get updated. You might have hit a bug but, unfortunately, I cannot reproduce them here. Would you please give me more details as to what you do and what is not updated. I'd sincerely appreciate it.

 

With regards,

Michel

[gwarthur]

What is the proper way to setup a 3-way?

Do I need two scenes? One with switch A as the controller, switch B as responder. The second scene reversed?

 

sfhutchi,

 

The proper way for a 3-way (all 3 switches control each other) is to drop all the switches in "one" scene as "controllers".

 

With regards,

 

I have had my Insteon gear for longer than I've had my ISY, so I'd gotten in the habit of tap-linking everything.

 

I was reading some forum entried today, and I became intrigued about linking devices from inside the ISY console because it would bring the ISY "into the loop" so that its status would be automatically updated whenever a device in the scene changed state.

 

Right?

 

To try this out, I deleted an existing tap-linked setup with two SLRs and a KDL secondary button. I then created a scene, dragged the two SLRs - not to the scene 'box' on the right - but to the scene's entry in the tree on the left. (Was that right?) Lastly, I also dragged the KPL button to the scene entry in the tree.

 

As I dragged each device to the scene entry, I set them as controllers. The two SLDs showed up in the scene 'box', but not the KPL button.

 

In any case, nothing was linked when I finished. Any idea what I did wrong?

 

I ended up deleting the scene and re-tap-linking everything. Now it's working again, and I'm no worst off, but I'd really like to crack the code and start doing all my linking with the ISY.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. -GA

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello gwarthur,

 

Ummm .... based on your statements, I am a little confused as to what you use ISY for? Timers/programs only? My comments below.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

I have had my Insteon gear for longer than I've had my ISY, so I'd gotten in the habit of tap-linking everything.

 

I was reading some forum entried today, and I became intrigued about linking devices from inside the ISY console because it would bring the ISY "into the loop" so that its status would be automatically updated whenever a device in the scene changed state.

 

Right?

Yes, correct!

 

To try this out, I deleted an existing tap-linked setup with two SLRs and a KDL secondary button. I then created a scene, dragged the two SLRs - not to the scene 'box' on the right - but to the scene's entry in the tree on the left. (Was that right?) Lastly, I also dragged the KPL button to the scene entry in the tree.

 

As I dragged each device to the scene entry, I set them as controllers. The two SLDs showed up in the scene 'box', but not the KPL button.

When you linked your devices into ISY, did you "...bring Existing Links"? If so, that might explain why your KPL didn't show up in the scene.

Under the scene, is the color of the SWLs RED?

 

In any case, nothing was linked when I finished. Any idea what I did wrong?

 

I ended up deleting the scene and re-tap-linking everything. Now it's working again, and I'm no worst off, but I'd really like to crack the code and start doing all my linking with the ISY.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. -GA

In all likelihood, ISY does not know about all the manual linkages and thus overwrites what was previously a working version. If you have two isolated switches, I do recommend removing them from ISY, adding them back in using the First Option (do not bring in the links), and try another scene. This will be the ultimate test as to what the problem could be.

[gwarthur]

Hello gwarthur,

 

Ummm .... based on your statements, I am a little confused as to what you use ISY for? Timers/programs only? My comments below.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

To try this out, I deleted an existing tap-linked setup with two SLRs and a KDL secondary button. I then created a scene, dragged the two SLRs - not to the scene 'box' on the right - but to the scene's entry in the tree on the left. (Was that right?) Lastly, I also dragged the KPL button to the scene entry in the tree.

 

As I dragged each device to the scene entry, I set them as controllers. The two SLDs showed up in the scene 'box', but not the KPL button.

When you linked your devices into ISY, did you "...bring Existing Links"? If so, that might explain why your KPL didn't show up in the scene.

Under the scene, is the color of the SWLs RED?

 

 

In all likelihood, ISY does not know about all the manual linkages and thus overwrites what was previously a working version. If you have two isolated switches, I do recommend removing them from ISY, adding them back in using the First Option (do not bring in the links), and try another scene. This will be the ultimate test as to what the problem could be.

 

Hi, Michel, and thanks for your quick reply.

 

I use my ISY mainly for scheduled light control throughout my house. And yes, the two SLRs were in italics and were both red in the scent I tried to set up.

 

I did not encounter the Start Linking dialog box with the three options when I set up the scene. Maybe that was one of the problems?

 

So, as I understand what you are telling me, in order to put together a working scene, any devices that I want to include that are currently tap-linked must be deleted from the ISY and re-added? -GA

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello gwarthur,

 

Please find my comments below.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi, Michel, and thanks for your quick reply.

 

I use my ISY mainly for scheduled light control throughout my house. And yes, the two SLRs were in italics and were both red in the scent I tried to set up.

 

I did not encounter the Start Linking dialog box with the three options when I set up the scene. Maybe that was one of the problems?

 

So, as I understand what you are telling me, in order to put together a working scene, any devices that I want to include that are currently tap-linked must be deleted from the ISY and re-added? -GA

Yes! Mostly because otherwise you are going to have links in devices that ISY does not know anything about and therefore, upon programming, is going to overwrite links and thus cause unexplained behavior: lights that used to turn on no longer turn on or other lights that never turned on now turn on.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[raypanic]

I have a problem whereas I set up a 3 way sceen 2 2476D's One controlling the load "master" another as a "slave" and Then I set the on level for both devices to 50%. (via ISY) Each switch on the first press will trigger the load to 50% the master switch if pressed again will then turn the load at a full 100% both master and slave leds track properly.

 

My problem is when the slave switch is pressed it works fine and turns on the load to 50 % upon a second press the slave leds will advance to 100% but the load and the master switch will stay at the 50% I have to double tap the slave switch to get the load and the master switch to go to 100%.

 

Another funny thing is that if I tap the slave switch on (no double tap ) the leds on the slave switch go to 100% and then to 50% if tapped once agian repetedly if tapped agian and agian

 

I have tried restoring them, manually removing the links between the two switches and manually replacing them as well as with the ISY.

 

If I hold the slave switch on rather than tapping, both master and slave work fine.

 

I am not sure what is going on. It's like they are not synced 100% or something. This is my first 3 way set with a local dimming level.

[MikeB]

My problem is when the slave switch is pressed it works fine and turns on the load to 50 % upon a second press the slave leds will advance to 100% but the load and the master switch will stay at the 50% I have to double tap the slave switch to get the load and the master switch to go to 100%.

 

Unfortunately, this is a known limitation with Insteon virtual 3-way configurations.

[Sub-Routine]

Ray, that is an Insteon "feature". There is nothing the ISY can do about it.

 

The idea is that if a switch is at it's local level from a touch, one more touch will bring it to full brightness. Another touch returns the switch to it's local level. It is a local only feature.

 

It's not a double-tap to fast on, the switches broadcast the changes as group on commands.

 

When the master sees a command from a slave it uses it's database to see what the level and rate it should use for the on command from that particular slave and reacts accordingly.

 

The switch you refer to as a slave can have a load and also control another device and can be controlled from another device and it's entirely likely that that is the desired effect. Different scenes from different switches for the same group of devices.

 

 

Rand

[raypanic]

Thank you, I will quit trying to fix it then....

[MikeB]

Ray, that is an Insteon "feature". There is nothing the ISY can do about it.

 

I haven't put much thought into this, and I certainly haven't tried it (so please excuse me if I'm missing something), but if this is a concern couldn't an ISY program be used to keep these switches in sync?

 

If
       Status  'Switch1' is On
   And Status  'Switch2' is not On

Then
       Wait  1 second
       Set 'Switch2' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

If
       Status  'Switch2' is On
   And Status  'Switch1' is not On

Then
       Wait  1 second
       Set 'Switch1' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[Sub-Routine]

Without this "feature" pressing a switch on when it is already on to it's local level from the local controller would never affect a change. I imagine the designers thought that if the light is so dim that you press the switch on a second time that the light should brighten considerably. To brighten gradually you can press and hold.

 

It actually is a feature I use very often, much more than I would have thought. When using a slave I double-tap. Then a single tap dims the light again.

 

I think it is a good idea once I became used to it.

[dbwarner5]

While this is an old post, I wish I had stumbled upon it before I did troubleshooting, thinking something was wrong, as I too like the on /on /on cycling of switches, so i came up with the enclosed simple program to accomplish.

 

Porch Light Great Room is the control

Porch Light Mstr Bedroom is the slave

 

so the on/ on /on cycle worked in the great room, but not in the bedroom... until i added the following program...For some reason, there is no need to write the reverse as it works going from fast on to the preset dimmer level.

 

If

(

Status 'Porch Light Mstr Bedroom' is not On

And Status 'Porch Light Mstr Bedroom' is not Off

)

And Control 'Porch Light Mstr Bedroom' is switched On

 

Then

Set 'Porch Light Great room' Fast On

Set 'Porch Light Mstr Bedroom' Fast On

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')