Restore device

[MarkJames]

Well... I'm a bit confused.

 

I have a KPL that was acting up. So I got a new one and used it to replace the old one. The new one is a 2486dwh8 version 5.1

 

I added the new one as a new insteon device. Then I moved the original device out of its folder (you can't replace a device in anything but the root folder in case you didn't know). Once it was in the root folder I did a replace device with the new one.

 

The first time I tried this it gave me the prompt about the application closing after it was done and I hit OK. Nothing happened, though.

 

I closed and reopened the browser and admin console and did it again. This time it went through the whole routine and supposedly restored the device. I closed my session and browser and restarted.

 

The links are absolutely not correct. Nor is the button toggle mode settings. I did a tools->diagnostic->device links which ran successfully. The compare, however, has a boatload of missing records. I then did a restore device and ran the compare again - same result. I then hard-reset the KPL and ran a restore device followed by a compare - same result yet again.

 

Any idea why I can't get this device to restore properly?

 

Oh.. and while I'm at it, shouldn't the 'restore device' feature restore the button toggle mode and 6 vs 8 button mode - it doesn't seem to?

 

mark

[oberkc]

I did not realize that the ISY configured keypads from 6 to 8 button. Is your old one and new one different button configurations (one and 8 and the other a 6)? If so, have you attempted to manually configure your new one to match the old, then replace?

[MarkJames]

To the best of my knowledge ISY doesn't configure 6 vs 8 - though I expect it will at some point as some other products do.

 

In my case I did manually configure it to the correct number of buttons before doing the replace or the restore.

[Michel Kohanim]

MarkJames,

 

I am so very sorry for the troubles. I think we are dealing with many issues here:

1. The difference between restore and replace

2. Changing the configuration between 6 and 8 button

3. Combination of 2 followed by 1

 

Unlike other solutions, ISY maintains a visual linkage between the buttons, the link records, and everything else there is to know about these devices. Button Toggle configuration (memory locations) is different for 6 and 8 buttons as well as button groupings. As such, if you replace an 6 button with 8 button KPL (and the other way around), you are bound to have many issues. This said, however, the link records should be restored properly.

 

Now, are you saying that when you do a restore on this specific KPL and when you do a compare, there are many mismatches? If so, this is indeed a problem which is quite serious and should be looked at more thoroughly. As such, would you be kind enough to let me know which firmware version you are using?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

To the best of my knowledge ISY doesn't configure 6 vs 8 - though I expect it will at some point as some other products do.

 

In my case I did manually configure it to the correct number of buttons before doing the replace or the restore.

[MarkJames]

Sorry for the delayed reply.

 

This is what I did

 

Removed an older kpl6 that was controlled via ISY

Replaced it with a 2486dwh8 v5.1

Added it to ISY

Manually configured it to be a kpl6

Ran replace from ISY from the old device to the new

 

It didn't work properly

Ran diagnostics and compare - many missing links

Ran restore

Still not working right

Ran diagnostics and compare - many missing links

Hard reset the switch, put it back to 6 button mode and ran restore

Still not working right

Ran diagnostics and compare - many missing links

 

I'm not sure which way to go now - try another kpl or manually configure it or remove it from all scenes then add it all back

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Mark,

 

What's the firmware version on your ISY?

 

Do you have missing links or record mismatch? Can you send me one example of a missing link and provide me with the address for both of your KPLs (old and new)?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[MarkJames]

Hi, Michel,

 

The firmware is 2.7.9a

 

This is what the links look like. There are quite a number more lines saying 'missing this record' - maybe 50 more.

 

 

Mark

[MarkJames]

Actually, as I was cooking dinner I was wondering if perhaps the problem is that there are simply too many links in this device - that perhaps I'm overflowing it. I have an 'every light in the house off' button on this KPL and that scene alone has 96 links.

 

Could that be part of the problem?

 

mark

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks so very much! It's good to cook dinner: it allows one to ponder about life in general and HA in particular!

 

First of all, I am beginning to think that at least some of the problem is in 2.7.9. As far as having too many links, KPL (and most INSTEON devices except the ICON brand) should be able to handle 417 links. If you have 96 nodes only for one button, how many nodes do you think are linked to other buttons? Here's a rough estimate:

1. 8 links right of the bat for ISY to receive status updates

2. For each responder in a scene, one link

3. For each controller in a scene, two links

 

If you are not going to add any motion sensors, may I humbly recommend upgrading to 2.7.10?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[MarkJames]

lol - I love cooking. We came back from Thailand recently and I went straight out and bought a 100,000BTU burner for outdoor use - it sits on my propane tank. That and a plain carbon steel wok. It's amazing the difference it makes having that much heat!

 

Anyways - I confirmed it's not the number of links as I removed that large scene from the device, hard reset it, changed it back to kpl6, and hit restore but I still get all the missing links. I wasn't aware 2.7.10 was available - I'll go look for it.

 

Thank you very much,

 

Mark

[MarkJames]

Hi Mark,

may I humbly recommend upgrading to 2.7.10?

 

I upgraded to 2.7.10 as you suggested.

 

It does seem to have made a significant difference. I have a couple of record mismatches but the long series of missing links is gone.

 

I'll play with it tomorrow and make sure all is well.

 

As usual, thanks for the absolutely first-rate service! I don't mind bugs in alpha versions one bit when I know the people behind the scenese are working on it to make a good product even better!

 

mark

[MarkJames]

Well, I'm sorry to say Michel that all is not flawless.

 

I've installed 2.7.10

hard reset the kpl in question - 2486 v5.1

reconfigured it to 6 button operation

restored it from ISY

ran diagnostics->read device links->compare

 

there are 2 record mismatches and 3 'missing this record' in the kpl

 

It's better than 2.7.9a was but it's not all the way there yet.

 

Any info I can send to help troubleshoot?

 

mark

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Mark,

 

Do you see any green 0101 icons? If not, then it means that ISY has actually been able to successfully write to the device. If the device has not been programmed properly then I have to think it's the KPL itself.

 

Just to make sure, would you be kind enough to do a restore on another KPL and then do a compare?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[MarkJames]

Well, Michel,

 

I've tried a couple of other KPLs and honestly I get a bit of a mixed bag of responses. The other ones all seem to do better than the one I posted about but I still get record mismatches. I've been hard-resetting the devices (all kpl's) and then restoring from ISY 2.7.10 followed immediately by a read device links and compare. I don't get a perfect correlation with any of them.

 

Don't get me wrong - for the most part they write pretty well and the record mismatches don't seem to cause any particular problem (that I can see yet) I just find it odd that from a blank slate the restore shouldn't give me a perfect write and then read back.

 

AFAIK the insteon device should ACK or NAK the write based on a checksum, no? Could it be there's a write retry limit that's too low and ISY is giving up before getting a proper write? I'm thinking I have to learn the ISY gibberish and follow it all in the event window.

 

I don't think it's a signal issue as my install now has 3 hardwired signalincs, 2 plug-in signalincs, and 8 access points.

 

mark

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Mark,

 

In 2.7.10, ISY indicates and stores where it left off (when it failed). As such, if you do not have any nodes with green 0101 icons, we have to assume that:

a. ISY actually wrote all the data

b. The device responded

 

So, the next step would be to check the client. Can you tell me which URL you are using AND, if possible, can you clear your Java cache. There was indeed a bug in the GUI in releases prior to 2.7.7 and perhaps your computer is using an old version of the Admin Console.

 

With kind regards,

Michel