Motion Sensors

[C Martin]

Is it possible to change the Off Time for these via Programing? That would be a great asset.

With these devices included in the Scenes, it is not possible, right now, to change the off time.

using Scenes is the best alternative now to Not have a lag time for a response.

In Program mode, there seems to be a 2 second delay before action happens.

[MarkJames]

I just set mine so that they turn on but not off - that's just a jumper setting. That way the scene turns on instantly and you can use a program to turn them off as the lag isn't an issue for that part (at least not for me).

 

mark

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi C Martin, unfortunately not simply because RF devices do not respond to any commands unless they are in listen mode (they go to sleep).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[C Martin]

Thanks Mark.

 

Thanks Michel

 

 

Clarence

[Goose66]

I think the answer is too simplistic. How does this work for keeping the lights on while occupied? If you set the Motion Sensor for ON only, it still sends an ON command everytime it senses motion, right. So, wouldn't it be kicking off lots of 10 minute timers with OFF commands after the delay. It seems like, after about 10 minutes, you would be getting a steady flow of OFF commands to your scene, coupled with the ON commands from the Sensor, would start making the light go on and off and on and off.

[C Martin]

Hi kingwr,

 

I think not. If you close the #4 Jumper, the MS does not send back "Off" commands to the MS. But, having said that, I also believe and I think my testing has showed this, you cannot re-trigger another on command from the MS until the count down timer is done.

In my case, I have the MS count down timer at 30 seconds. Also, in my case since my program is set for more than 30 seconds, the MS will resend the "On" signal before it the off program command times out. There is one other thing that happens, ISY will not re-trigger the on command to the device if it is still on but the program timer is restarts. That's why there will be no blinking light.

 

When I did my testing, I opened the "Event Manager" and watched all of the commands in the different scenarios.

 

I think that I am correct in this information and I look forward to any corrections that anyone may have.

 

Clarence

[C Martin]

A Clarification.

 

There are two things that happen or could happen depending on the jumper settings.

The MS has a countdown timer that send a reset to the MS to be able to re-trigger and if the Jumper #4 is "Open" an off signal for the MS. If the Jumper #4 is closed it does not send the "Off" command to the MS.

 

This can be seen if you watch the status of the MS in both of these scenarios.

 

Clarence

[Goose66]

I would be interested in seeing more details of how you have this working (like your program), in that I cannot get this to work. Two issues that I am having:

 

1. The MS sends an initial ON on motion, then will not send another ON until expiration of the timer WITH NO MOTION. So if you have constant motion in the room, then you never get a second ON to reset the OFF timer in the program. The program turns the lights off after the timer expires, and the only way to turn the lights back on is to sit still for one minute, then move to get the MS to send another ON command.

 

2. Even if you can force another ON (by sitting still for a minute and then moving before expiration of the program timer), the second ON does not reset the program. This may because the ISY sees the status of the MS as ON forever (since the MS never sends an off). Therefore, the program never gets kicked off again on later ONs from the MS, because the status hasn't changed. Trying to set the scene or MS - Sensor device to OFF also fails, because it can't update an RF device. So from the first ON, the status of the MS is on forever, as far as I can tell, until you force the MS to send an OFF by pressing the set button.

 

I agree having this working would be great, especially for those of us with v1 motion sensors that can't change our delay time for OFFs.

[C Martin]

It's a simple set of programs:

There are two of them - one for daytime and the other for night time. Remember, the MS is setup to Not send an "Off" command.

 

This program is for daytime:

If
       Control 'Closet Motion-Sensor' is switched On
   And Program 'GoodNite Flag Pgm' is False

Then
       Set 'Closet Dimmer' 95%
       Wait  3 minutes 
       Set 'Closet Dimmer' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

This program is for night:

If
       Control 'Closet Motion-Sensor' is switched On
   And Program 'GoodNite Flag Pgm' is True

Then
       Set 'Closet Dimmer' 33%
       Wait  15 seconds
       Set 'Closet Dimmer' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

The MS is part of a Scene. I tried making the program "Adjust" the Scene but that did not work well.

 

Please understand that the dimmer referred to is an in-line dimmer that is part of the 2-wire Insteon kit. Setting that up was a chore in itself.

 

Clarence

[Goose66]

Perhaps it is the v2 Motion Sensors that behave differently, because I cannot get it to work with my v1 Motion Sensor, for the reasons described above.

 

Of course, if I had v2 Motion Sensors, then I could just set the delay to 10 minutes and be done with it.

[Goose66]

BTW, I do see one error in my implementation. I was using Status and not Control as the condition in my program. That may be why the program only ran once (problem # 2 above).

[C Martin]

kingwr,

 

Good catch. I too, made the same error in the past.

 

While programming, use your event viewer to see how your programs are running. This really works and you will catch a lot of things that you think are supposed to happen.

 

Clarence.

[brad77]

Clarence,

 

I don't understand how your program would work if there were constant motion in the room. I understand that your motion sensor's internal timer is set to 30 seconds, after which it will send another ON (control), but what happens if one waves one's arms in front of that motion sensor for over three minutes? My understanding is that the light should turn off at this point because the motion sensor will refuse to trip again during that time because its internal timer hasn't yet expired.

 

Perhaps there is a difference between the v1 and v2 sensors, but my bet is that you don't notice it because your sensor is located in your closet.

 

Thanks!

[C Martin]

I just checked again.

What seems to happen - I do get a re-trigger of the MS after 30 seconds. But, the program does not show a re-start but it seems that the timing is restarted when the MS re-triggers.

 

PS.

I did a test earlier and when a new motion happens the timing is re-started.

 

Clarence

[Goose66]

Good to know. I guess there is a difference between the v2 and v1 Motion Sensor after all. As I mentioned, the v1 Motion Sensor, even if set to send "ON" only, will not send another ON until a full minute elapses with no motion (upon which it would normally send an off) and then motion occurs again.

 

As far as the resetting the timer in the program, it would be nice to have this documented as a "feature" of how programs work. For existence, does the full "Then" execute? Will a condition that causes the "Else" stop the execution of the "Then?" etc. This behavior could have applications in other areas as well.

[C Martin]

Update!

 

you can see the program restarting - this shows in the program status window - look under the program start time. The new start time and finish time will show the same re-tart time.

 

Clarence

[brad77]

As far as the resetting the timer in the program, it would be nice to have this documented as a "feature" of how programs work. For existence, does the full "Then" execute? Will a condition that causes the "Else" stop the execution of the "Then?" etc. This behavior could have applications in other areas as well.

See this Wiki entry, kingwr. The condition is re-evaluated whenever a wait or repeat is encountered. If the condition is no longer valid, the program either stops or executes the Else part of the program.