Next Gen Teaser

[bpwwer]

@TekenI suspect you'll give me a similar unwarranted response that you gave @asesince I didn't jump into this thread earlier.  But, given that you noted my involvement in node server development and the fact that I'm the one that wrote the original energy module for the ISY, I think I have some credibility in this discussion.

I currently do some high level energy monitoring using a Brultech system (ECM1220, not the GEM).  At times, I have had it integrated into my home automation.  When it was integrated, the only use was to display current consumption.  I actually still do display both current consumption and production (solar) but that info now comes from the SolarEdge node server.

I still do use the ECM1220 along with the data from the SolarEdge inverters/meters to gather and track historical data.  But I have yet to come up with any use cases where I'd need to trigger events based on energy information I currently have available, let alone what I would do with more detailed reporting.

I made this same point in another thread about Vue energy monitoring.  To break even creating a node server would mean you'd need 50-100 people willing to pay for it.  My highest selling node server has sold less than 40 copies over the past 7 months.   I create node servers because I enjoy doing it or because I actually need it.  UDI needs to be more pragmatic about creating node servers since it will effect their business bottom line one way or the other. 

If you can make a business case for why someone should invest thousands of dollars to create a node server for the Brultech GEM, I'm sure either UDI or one of the existing node server developers would be willing to do so.  So far I've not seen any data that indicates more than a couple of people would be willing to pay for a energy monitoring node server.

 

[Teken]

2 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

@TekenI suspect you'll give me a similar unwarranted response that you gave @ase

 

Why would you believe my response would be the same to you??? 

[RPerrault]

17 minutes ago, Teken said:

Since you need me to hold your hand. ? Let's keep this very simple go do a Google search. Next to help you narrow down what is happening and provide context do a search in this forum which has no less than a dozen comments, links, and references.

You know in life its about work and putting in the effort . . .

I'm not here to spoon feed you and if you think I'm going to waste my time to offer you information that is easily obtained - get back on your meds! ?

why do you take everything to a personal attack?

 

[ase]

22 minutes ago, Teken said:

I gather you're still grasping how to use the power of Google eh?? ?

Look at you. You got called out by two people on "facts" and now you are acting like a petulant child.

Several people are basically telling you the same thing. Now including the original coder of the energy module for Polisy. 

This whole discussion isn't about the technology, it is now about the way you are acting. The thing is you seem to relish in it.

However, ad hominem attacks are absolutely a way of covering for lack of intellectual discorse.

You also seem to need to read about the Dunning Kruger effect. You are lashing out at people with far more knowledge and experience than you, claiming you know more.

The behavior that you have displayed today would be enough to get you banned in most Social Media. 

I could eviscerate your arguments with just the white papers on each protocol and why the protocol doesn't work the way you want it to. But you seem less interested in truth than with ad hominem attacks.

So it becomes obvious this attack today isn't about the technology and is 100 percent about something else.

You mentioned respect, you show very little and expect a large amount. That isn't how that works.

Your temper tantrum is eroding the respect people have for you, not just me but many.

I hope that you get Whatever is truly bugging you figured out.

I would hate to see a once well respected member of this community waste that respect over such a petty thing as this.

All the best.

[Teken]

1 minute ago, RPerrault said:

why do you take everything to a personal attack?

 

My replies are straight to the point and factual. Just because you don't like the feedback doesn't change the facts. You asked me to offer you information as it relates to the topic at hand.

I literally told you to use the search feature in this forum and Google!

Why???

Because using the two would provide you that insight you're asking for. Now, if you can't even do that it simply means you were not even remotely sincere in the asking. As was the other member who said *Can't see the relationship, don't know why, how come*

They can't see the relationship because they didn't even bother to READ the information provided here. They don't know the WHY because again they didn't bother to understand the history, progression, and the current state of affairs of the topic at hand.

Than the famous How Come???

Am I supposed to spoon feed everyone when they can't even read the basic information along with a freaking photo to show what can be done, was done, along with what is lacking in the ISY Series Controller as it relates to a handling a single *One Shot* email!

Your reply and others like it is exactly why things never ever progress . . .

You have one person going off about the CLI??? ?

Really should we all just stayed with DOS??? Why even bother coming up with a GUI in anything the world uses and is in place today???

[upstatemike]

I am kind of suprised everyone is looking at the GEM simply as an energy monitor. I use mine to trigger actions such as reminders that the oven is still on or that the dryer is finished. In fact I don't monitor anything at all, I use it exclusively for triggers.

[bpwwer]

7 minutes ago, Teken said:

Why would you believe my response would be the same to you??? 

Interesting what part of my post you choose to focus on.

I too am interested in seeing the data (FACTS) that backup your assertion that there's a large demand for energy monitoring in the ISY, specifically the demand for a GEM node server.  

As I've stated, I do have an interest in energy monitoring (and just for the record, it has nothing to do any posts/info you've shared in the past, although I have found some of the info you've shared over the years on this topic interesting).   I do monitor this forum (and in the past other HA forums) so I'd like to think I'd be able to spot pent up demand for specific types of node servers. 

And, no, I'm not going to try and google for the data because I don't have the time and it's not me that needs to backup the assertion that the demand exists.

[ase]

2 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I am kind of suprised everyone is looking at the GEM simply as an energy monitor. I use mine to trigger actions such as reminders that the oven is still on or that the dryer is finished. In fact I don't monitor anything at all, I use it exclusively for triggers.

I think the issue here is that most modern devices will send reminders on their own. 

I don't use these options myself but my washer and dryer both can send alerts, my range can as well. My fridge can send alerts about temp and door being open. Then add that to alexa. 

The thing is most people want simplified solutions. Energy Management as a way of controlling or as a trigger is far more complex.

One of the biggest issues for us geeks is looking at things from the non-geek pov. 

I mean I know I can automate a desk fan, but should I? If I developed it as a product, would there be a market. Simplicity over everything else. 

If samsung makes a washer that can text me when the load is done, why use Energy monitoring to do the exact same thing.

I can employ temp sensors and IR commands to control my portable AC or I could use the energy information reported by the smart plug or I could just use the Thermostat on the thing. 

That's the issue, simplicity. Use of energy management or measuring just isn't going to have a big enough market to make it profitable.

Like it or not, we are headed to a future where each device is "smart" and can give data about a number of aspects. This is exactly why I have faith that UDI is heading in the right direction, they will enable many of these devices to work together.

[Teken]

3 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

Interesting what part of my post you choose to focus on.

I too am interested in seeing the data (FACTS) that backup your assertion that there's a large demand for energy monitoring in the ISY, specifically the demand for a GEM node server.  

As I've stated, I do have an interest in energy monitoring (and just for the record, it has nothing to do any posts/info you've shared in the past, although I have found some of the info you've shared over the years on this topic interesting).   I do monitor this forum (and in the past other HA forums) so I'd like to think I'd be able to spot pent up demand for specific types of node servers. 

And, no, I'm not going to try and google for the data because I don't have the time and it's not me that needs to backup the assertion that the demand exists.

I quoted that portion because it appeared you thought my reference of you was in the negative.

Was it???

[Teken]

Just now, lilyoyo1 said:

I don't think it's necessarily about what it can be used for. It's whether or not it's worth the cost of development for something that so little people will use. 

That would encompass almost every node server released now. How many people are asking and using the inventory node server? How many hundreds and thousands are using the Purple Air??

How about the 1-Wire??

I could keep going because these are just examples to affirm my position that its not always about 100, 1000, 9999999999999999999999 people. Before the PG3 everything was free and developed because of the love and wanting to add integration in products / services that had value to some / lots.

This shows exactly in where???

HomeSeer / Home Assistant / Other

[bpwwer]

1 minute ago, Teken said:

I quoted that portion because it appeared you thought my reference of you was in the negative.

Was it???

No, it was not.

My comment was trying point out that I thought your response to @asewasn't appropriate. My added snark was probably not appropriate as well, sorry.

[Athlon]

2 minutes ago, Teken said:

How many people are asking and using the inventory node server? How many hundreds and thousands are using the Purple Air??

I do not know the motivation for sure, but they were likely written by people who wanted those for their own capability and shared it with us.

The only thing it cost them was their time.

[Teken]

2 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

No, it was not.

My comment was trying point out that I thought your response to @asewasn't appropriate. My added snark was probably not appropriate as well, sorry.

Yet, you used my comment to portray the use of your name in a negative fashion. Anyone reading the replies knows it was to affirm you offered several things.

- You are capable in developing node servers

- You used prior experience and knowledge and code to add other weather related nodes

- You did so many times simply for the fact it was interesting or where literally a single person asked for the same!

- It was to call out your contribution and many others to the ISY Series Controller. It was never intended or meant for anyone to use what I said as a slate toward you or any of the developers who literally put in time and effort to offer the same to the community!

Yet, the way you scoped your reply absolutely gave a sense that is what I said or did. 

As to my reply to @ase his reply and statements in no way addressed anything I stated. Even when given examples and a photo his reply was not only none sensical but completely ignored the facts.

I used the email analogy because its something everyone who owns a ISY Series Controller can relate to. His follow up reply is that everything I showed in that photo from Brultech is present and in the Polisy / ISY Series Controller.

Wrong . . . 

 

[bpwwer]

1 minute ago, Teken said:

That would encompass almost every node server released now. How many people are asking and using the inventory node server? How many hundreds and thousands are using the Purple Air??

How about the 1-Wire??

I could keep going because these are just examples to affirm my position that its not always about 100, 1000, 9999999999999999999999 people. Before the PG3 everything was free and developed because of the love and wanting to add integration in products / services that had value to some / lots.

This shows exactly in where???

HomeSeer / Home Assistant / Other

So it sounds like you're saying someone should develop a GEM node server because you want it.

As you say, most of the node servers, HomeSeer plug-ins, Home Assistant integrations are developed by someone that has a need for them, not because there's a demand/ROI from a business perspective.   I've written node servers because:

a) I have the device and want to use it in my automation.

b) UDI paid me to develop it.

c) I enjoy it.

There hasn't been a case yet where demand/ROI to create one has been the motivator.  Right now, I don't have the time to entertain writing a node server for fun.   So that basically means that to motivate me to write a node server means I either need it myself or there's a big enough financial opportunity to make it worth my time.