My last PLM, may it Rest in Peace

[Mustang65]

Over the years I have gone through 3 RJ45 versions of the PLM and now my last one which is a USB version, died. So, I believe it is time to move away from the Insteon product line to one of the other options. Now I just need to narrow down which to go with. Not a big fan of Z-Wave, looking more toward the ZigBee type. The hunt is on

[captainc]

I started with z wave a couple of years ago when insteon products started floundering and has worked well.  Not the same as insteon with the scenes.  the range with my 994 with the 500 zwave board is weak, i have to include the device a couple feet from the (set up a connection jig for the relays, switches, etc) but when in work more reliably than insteon.

I just ordered a 700 zwave hub thats supposed to do scenes and have the great range.  i am cautiously optimistic. 

[mango]

12 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

Over the years I have gone through 3 RJ45 versions of the PLM and now my last one which is a USB version, died. So, I believe it is time to move away from the Insteon product line to one of the other options. Now I just need to narrow down which to go with. Not a big fan of Z-Wave, looking more toward the ZigBee type. The hunt is on

If you have the broken PLM's horded you may want to see if they are fixable?

[Geddy]

17 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

So, I believe it is time to move away from the Insteon product line to one of the other options.

Why abandon what you've had working? There's a seller on ebay that sells PLM repair services  - see their listings here - (https://www.ebay.com/sch/nilachidatasystems/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=)

Many on the forums have used them to repair the PLM. Additionally the new Insteon owners have shown that PLMs should be in stock in 23Q1 (maybe give or take when they actually get them). 

Might be worth getting them fixed rather than the expense of replacing so much other hardware. How long did each one last? If not long then you've probably got other issues you should get checked out. 

[matapan]

FWIW, I sent a comment to the new Insteon company about product quality and the longevity of the PLM in particular. Steve Lee responded back, who mentioned that the PLM quality has improved significantly over past several years, to the point where the Insteon company has a negligable return rate on the devices.

I did stress the importance of product reliability and stability in terms of a product line's reputation in the email thread.

[larryllix]

27 minutes ago, matapan said:

FWIW, I sent a comment to the new Insteon company about product quality and the longevity of the PLM in particular. Steve Lee responded back, who mentioned that the PLM quality has improved significantly over past several years, to the point where the Insteon company has a negligable return rate on the devices.

I did stress the importance of product reliability and stability in terms of a product line's reputation in the email thread.

I hope they improve the designs, all the way around. I just this got unit out of a storage box, never been used, but was plugged into another device in the storage box. It has never seen UV or heat. I am just glad it was not alive while I tried to wiggle it out of the other device's receptacle.

Plastic broke in about 8 places, between AC plug pins and mounts of the electronics inside. Never seen service and now garbage.

@Tekenwas right on the money. Insteon found another way to make them cheaper. Glad that guy is gone.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by larryllix

[Techman]

@larryllix

You should forward your picture and comments to Insteon support.

I've also had the plastic enclosures break down on several plug-in modules

[larryllix]

57 minutes ago, Techman said:

@larryllix

You should forward your picture and comments to Insteon support.

I've also had the plastic enclosures break down on several plug-in modules

Yeah but...new company and I wouldn;t hold old devices against them. I want them to succeed, either way.

I have never had one do this before. This one just disintegrated in my hand as I pulled it out of the other Insteon device. First it fractured between all the plug pins and then as I tried to not fracture any more it pulled apart as all the mounting pins broke apart.

I remember Teken posted about this a few years ago and found it hard to believe. Hopefully it was just one production run of some cheap plastic.

[Brian H]

On mine. The On/Off module had some big design faults.

They used a flat head screw in a counter sunk hole. To mount the cover. The plastic used also seems to be too brittle. The screws in mine caused the back to crack. The assembly also looked too high for the cover and I could see the back slightly bowing out when the case was closed. I too have some unused ones. With totally  cracked backs and screw mounting posts.

At least the 2457D2 Lamp Linc used pan head screws and it looked like they didn't over stress the assembly.

[matapan]

Out of curiosity, I checked out the eBay listing for the refurbishing service. The seller has different grades of service offered, from the basic electrolytic capacitor replacement to "the works", where additional components are replaced, working or not.

The listing begs the question: Does a component upgrade make the PLM a reliable unit for say, 10 years? 25 years? Or does the design need to be revamped to ensure long module life?

I figured from reading past comments about the capacitor replacement that this is a maintenance thing; you replace the caps every 3-5 years to keep it going. Is this the case? Electronic design and repair is above my pay grade apart from the manual labor involved.

[MrBill]

16 minutes ago, matapan said:

I figured from reading past comments about the capacitor replacement that this is a maintenance thing

My take is the original components on older PLMs were poor quality and/or not quite the correct spec.  PLMs manufactured after about 2016 seem to be better quality from the start, perhaps even newer is even better, but i don't know that.  In short my take is that once repaired they may be better going forward and not require additional cyclic maintenance. 

@Mustang65 can you tell use the date codes on your failed PLMs, and if you remember how old they are/were when they failed... I'm curious about the vintages.  Especially how many were after 2016ish.

@larryllix did the box maybe get dropped while you were moving?

[Techman]

The newer PLMs also have an updated/improved RS232 interface. 

[larryllix]

10 hours ago, MrBill said:

My take is the original components on older PLMs were poor quality and/or not quite the correct spec.  PLMs manufactured after about 2016 seem to be better quality from the start, perhaps even newer is even better, but i don't know that.  In short my take is that once repaired they may be better going forward and not require additional cyclic maintenance. 

@Mustang65 can you tell use the date codes on your failed PLMs, and if you remember how old they are/were when they failed... I'm curious about the vintages.  Especially how many were after 2016ish.

@larryllix did the box maybe get dropped while you were moving?

No.

The box contained about 40 Insteon devices. When I first grabbed the device to unplug it from the chain of OnOff modules it seemed totally intact. When I attempted to pull it out of the receptacle less than about 1/8" it shattered between every plug pin. As I began to wiggle it, in order to reduce further damage the device let go inside on all mounts and the electronics began to expose themselves as the device split apart. At that point I realised it was going to be garbage and pulled harder.

I have been storing spare devices like this for years. Never happened before but maybe I need to examine the rest (and maybe lube the pins before putting any back into storage).  I need to reduce my spare parts storage and this seems like it would serve that need well. *SIGH*

If this was due to shock of some kind, then somebody hit it directly with a hammer. It shattered like glass when I pulled on it.

Edited November 17, 2022 by larryllix

[Techman]

 

Here's the response from Insteon Support regarding the PLMs that are due out in Q1 2023. 

Do they contain higher quality capacitors than the previous versions?

Yes, these models will contain higher quality capacitors and fixes to the circuits that made the original capacitor fail. These changes were made in 2016-2018 and will continue in the newly-made units.

Any improvement in the interface, link storage etc.? 

The USB version is unchanged. The Serial model had some updates in 2016 to be more robust with host interfaces

[Brian H]

Unfortunately the new 2234-223 that got to the FCC Database entry. Does not look like it is in the cards right now.

It had a universal power supply. 100VAC to 240VAC, 50/60 cycles. Larger link database ~1000 to ~4000 links. Faster clock and memory. It could also supply +5VDC on the serial connector. So like the old 2412S could power an ISY994i with out the wall wart.

From the FCC photos. The AC input sub-assembly looked like it could be changed to other locations in the world AC connection. So a PLM may have been possible for the other countries. As I believe the RF section with its own controller. Could be programmed for the local accepted standard.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Brian H
Add information

[Brian H]

From my own 2413S PLM modules.

V2.3 had the newer C7 and C13 of a Fujicon TY type for switching supply use and a TI MAX232EI interface chip. With better ESD ratings.

V2.4 and V2.5. Have the newly designed serial port daughter board. TI MAX232EI chip, serial signal protective components and C7 and C13 TY capacitors on the main board.

I have no information on the later ones above V2.5

[Mustang65]

@MrBill The PLM versions are

(1) 24135 (V2.3 or V2.4)Trashed years ago

(2) 24135 V2.5 [471B] (replaced the capacitors with no luck)

(1) 2413U V2.6 [452B] (died a few weeks ago)

As far a as I am concerned, it is time to switch from Insteon to Lutron or something like that. Heck my X10 held up from the late 70's into the 2000's with little or no problems, still have a box full of X10 modules, remotes and other accessories in the shed, that all worked when I switched to Insteon years ago.  I am not interested in WiFi or a Cloud based system. I will download the node server for something like the RA2 (since there is nothing available for RA3 yet) and start changing out the Insteon devices. Not sure, but I do not remember seeing any Remote Modules or AC Receptacles for the RA2 or RA3 so I may have to find a work around for those 6 items. Was looking at Zigbee (not sure of its future), but leaning more toward Lutron now.

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mustang65

[MrBill]

14 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

@MrBill The PLM versions are

(1) 24135 (V2.3 or V2.4)Trashed years ago

(2) 24135 V2.5 [471B] (replaced the capacitors with no luck)

(1) 2413U V2.6 [452B] (died a few weeks ago)

As far a as I am concerned, it is time to switch from Insteon to Lutron or something like that. Heck my X10 held up from the late 70's into the 2000's with little or no problems, still have a box full of X10 modules, remotes and other accessories in the shed, that all worked when I switched to Insteon years ago.  I am not interested in WiFi or a Cloud based system. I will download the node server for something like the RA2 (since there is nothing available for RA3 yet) and start changing out the Insteon devices. Not sure, but I do not remember seeing any Remote Modules or AC Receptacles for the RA2 or RA3 so I may have to find a work around for those 6 items. Was looking at Zigbee (not sure of its future), but leaning more toward Lutron now.

I wish there was an easy way to do a case study of failures.  My first 2413S is a V2.3 and it's still ticking.  I have another as backup that might be 2.4 (i don't remember without going downstairs to look. 

What I specifically wonder is if power quality has a factor. 

[larryllix]

29 minutes ago, MrBill said:

I wish there was an easy way to do a case study of failures.  My first 2413S is a V2.3 and it's still ticking.  I have another as backup that might be 2.4 (i don't remember without going downstairs to look. 

What I specifically wonder is if power quality has a factor. 

I think @Brian H was keeping score years back.

I would be sure a raspy sinewave voltage would make the caps work harder to smooth off those sharp edges. Some have had many PLMs burn out, while others have never had a problem with their first one.

I still have my original PLM from 2016? but it was retired for a USB unit on my polisy. I suspected it at one point in time, and replaced it for a few months, but returned it to service after I tested the "spare".

[hart2hart]

@MrBill The PLM versions are
(1) 24135 (V2.3 or V2.4)Trashed years ago
(2) 24135 V2.5 [471B] (replaced the capacitors with no luck)
(1) 2413U V2.6 [452B] (died a few weeks ago)
As far a as I am concerned, it is time to switch from Insteon to Lutron or something like that. Heck my X10 held up from the late 70's into the 2000's with little or no problems, still have a box full of X10 modules, remotes and other accessories in the shed, that all worked when I switched to Insteon years ago.  I am not interested in WiFi or a Cloud based system. I will download the node server for something like the RA2 (since there is nothing available for RA3 yet) and start changing out the Insteon devices. Not sure, but I do not remember seeing any Remote Modules or AC Receptacles for the RA2 or RA3 so I may have to find a work around for those 6 items. Was looking at Zigbee (not sure of its future), but leaning more toward Lutron now.
 

I have many spares of most Insteon modules but with company demise was looking at installing RA3 as replacements in future. My house was built 14 years ago fully equipped with Insteon everywhere. Other than PLM and what I assume was a bad batch of keypadlincs, I’ve only started to replace a few switches in last couple years. Probably 3-6 per year. I actually look forward to single band device failing so I can install dual band. Response is nearly 100% and I lve still got lots of single band devices installed. I replaced working power line only lamplincs to strengthen dual mesh. In fact, I read SmartHome literature and thought all devices were dual band. Only to discover that they were released a little latter. I rebuilt the original access points that bridged 110 legs and they are still in place.

The Insteon thermostat, IRlinc and door lock were a hot mess. I also miss the syncrolinc as they were perfect to track status of clothes washer and dishwasher for a hot water recirculating pump by only having bit run when needed. But I digress….

I can’t imagine pulling all of that out with Insteon appearing to be back. Not questioning your decision and in fact, selfishly looking forward to reading about your adventure.

I do think power quality is an issue and had whole house surge protection installed during build.


Keep us posted. I may join you someday. I

[jec6613]

My PLM ended up no longer responding after a near lightning strike, so I'm using the USB RF only dongle for now ... I'm hopeful the new PLMs come out soon because the performance is extremely poor compared to the PLM.

FWIW, I only had one pre-2016 go dead due to capacitor issues, the other two PLM deaths were both due to lightning.  They seem quite susceptible to strikes compared to most other devices, the only other device I had take a dive with a network switch that blew all of its capacitors at once and started leaking electrolyte from the case - the worst case on other devices was a hard reset and a restore.

[HTTRC]

I’m thanking the universe for buying a backup a few years ago.  If I can find it.

[Brian H]

List indicated new 2413S PLM near the end of the first quarter of 2023. Improved specification one in second quarter of 2023.

[Mustang65]

On 11/18/2022 at 9:58 AM, hart2hart said:

I can’t imagine pulling all of that out with Insteon appearing to be back. Not questioning your decision and in fact, selfishly looking forward to reading about your adventure.

I do think power quality is an issue and had whole house surge protection installed during build.


Keep us posted. I may join you someday. I

A few years ago I decided to change out the original whole house surge protection with the Levinton unit below. I have not had any real issues since then. Since then, the highest AC voltage monitored on the incoming power lines was I believe 128volts, I am not sure, although I could dump the db. We do get a lot of power outages whether it is for a second or two to a few hours and I am thinking that when the power comes back on may be the issue. I believe I counted 30+ of those outages this year with most being just for a few seconds.

For the short term I am going to install a few of my Zigbee outlet modules, but I am planning to hold out for the RA3. I just received an email from U-D that the Matter card for the Polisy is shipping now.

Back to Amazon for Zigbee modules and a wall switch or two to keep the wife happy