Resolution to my PLM/ISY communication errors

[Teken]

The warranty replacement PLM just arrived.  It is also v2.2, with a date code of 1635.

 

The only "downside" with having an extra PLM on hand, is that you are stuck with the current technology (and firmware version), while it sits in a box.  And for whatever warranty I have left on the one in the box, the warranty clock continues to tick.  Oh well.

 

Thank you for the follow up its much appreciated.

[stusviews]

The warranty clock may be ticking, but it hasn't even started it's anticipated lifespan.

[dpfrez]

posting my resolution to a COMM issue to this pinned thread.

 

Basically, try to narrow down interference in the home by shutting off breakers in the house.

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/20997-continual-comm-issues/

[hlaiii]

Well, that was a new version 2.2 that I used to replace a bad 2413S PLM back on December 10, 2016.  So it looks like this new one has begun to flake out - 8 months almost to the day of installation.

 

Going back to the Smarthome site today, I am hopeful that some of you have seen the addendum that Smarthome has placed at the bottom some of the comments, beginning around February 3, 2017:

 

Smarthome reply: We have identified an issue that effects Insteon PowerLinc Modem (2413S - revisions prior to 2.3) where in some circumstances a component may fail if exposed to prolonged and excessive heat. In these failures the PowerLinc Modem will cease to function. To prevent such an issue from occurring we introduced a hardware change that began shipping in January 2017 (Rev 2.3).

 

Hopefully I will be getting a version 2.3 with this replacement. 

[Brian H]

If it is through Smarthome. It definitely should be a V2.3 or maybe even higher. If they made more changes.

My V2.3 is Date Code 4216 and I got it in April 2017 if my dates are correct.

Mine was a fresh shipment from Smarthome to Amazon as the authorized dealer.

Some of the Amazon merchants may still have older hardware modules.

[hlaiii]

I called yesterday (August 10), and requested the exchange.  I requested that a new device be cross-shipped

overnight delivery (by UPS, which was an added $14.00 or so beyond the free ground shipping amount), and 

it just arrived this morning. 

 

They have a new, crisp "font' of numbers on the ID label.  I now have Revision 2.3, with a Date Code of 4616.

[hlaiii]

So much for the crisp, new font.  It has been 5 months or so, and this Revision 2.3 PLM is now flaking out.  That will be approximately 5 months since this device (Date Code 4616) went into service - so much for the updated "build" and Revision 2.3.  

 

I guess there are still a few months left on the "warranty".  I have my backup Revision 2.2 ready to take over, but what are we now seeing with the current Revision 2.4?

[Brian H]

Well that is not great news.

 

Week 46 of 2016. Is probably the build date.

As Smarthome indicated V2.3 was being sold in January 2017.

I believe they go by the purchase date for warranty purposes.

 

Long shot but maybe they finally use quality capacitors in the V2.4's. One can dream anyway. 

[ctviggen1]

On 12/26/2007 at 1:08 PM, yardman 49 said:

The following tips may be helpful if communication problems are encountered:

 

- Use two SmartHome AccessPoints to improve network communications. Place these on opposite legs (sometimes called “phasesâ€) of the power line mains. The AccessPoints provide their own internal utility to determine if they are on opposite legs of the powerline mains. (The older SignaLincs can be used for the same purpose.)

- Place the two AccessPoints as close to the power line mains breaker or fuse box as possible. This will give any received signals the best chance of being propagated back throughout entire powerline network. This can provide a dramatic improvement in some cases. Again, be certain that the AccessPoints are placed on opposite legs of the power line mains.

- Stack or “piggy-back†an additional AccessPoint on top of the PLM to improve network communications. The use of a stacked AccessPoint can improve Insteon signal strength to enable the PLM to better receive and send signals. Many users have reported that this is an effective solution. It may help to add this as an additional (third) AccessPoint in addition to the previously mentioned two AccessPoints.

- Do not plug a PLM into a power strip that has any type of surge-suppression incorporated, as this can weaken the Insteon signals. Likewise, certain models of GFCI outlets have also been reported to degrade Insteon signals (this, however, is not true for all GFCIs). To provide for surge protection for the PLM, ISY, and all of your Insteon devices, consider using a "whole house" surge suppressor. This can often be supplied and installed by your electric power utility for a minimal charge.

What's an "access point"?  If I go to Smart Home and search for "access point", I get zero hits. Do you mean this:

https://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2992-222-range-extender.html

If so, how do you "stack" that with a PLM?

Where do people buy their PLMs? I'm going to replace mine, and Amazon has them much cheaper from sellers other than Smarthome.  However, Smarthome basically says you won't get their model unless you buy from them through Amazon.

What about wall warts (transformers)?  For instance, the ISY has a transformer and I have a microcell with a transformer plugged into the same set of outlets where the ISY/PLM is. Is that bad?

[paulbates]

Access points are now called Range Extenders. You can also get the same functionality from a lamplinc or appliancelinc

The newest plm build is 2.5 ...and.. you are under warranty. Send a short, to-the-point, factual but nice email to smarthome customer service discussing the exact short time between your  plm failures. Then state that you need the plm replaced with a 2.5 version

https://www.smarthome.com/contacts/

Paul

 

 

[Brian H]

The 2443 Access Point has been replaced by the Range Extender. Both do the same function. The Range Extender is a 2457D2 LampLinc with out the dimming parts. You can use any of the plug in Dual Band devices to do the same thing and not use the extra functions.

The stack the Access Point with PLM can no longer be done. The 2413S has no pass through outlet on the front side. Like the old power line only 2412S PLM has.

An Amazon Merchant may not have the most current hardware revision.  Not sure about sold and shipped by Amazon. I have seen a few posts that Smarthome sent them the latest V2.5.

[ctviggen1]

Thank you both.  I have two of the Range Extenders, though I did not have them near my panel.  I've placed them near my panel and will see what happens.

I have several issues where a fish tank light does not get shut off when it should and where my towel warmer (goes through a GFCI) does not get shut off or comes on at random times. These are the only issues I know of, but there might be more.

I've added many filters throughout the house, and basically have everything that can be filtered with a filter on it.  So, I'm trying to fix these two errors, and have not been able to do so as of yet. 

[paulbates]

When an Insteon device can be turned on reliably, but not off, it can mean the device is creating noise snd overwhelming Insteon signals.

a test  for this is testing how reliably ons vs offs are with the admin console. Then, remove the load (unscrewing/unplugging the bulb, pump, etc, and repeat the test. Did it work better with no load?

Paul

[ctviggen1]

These do seem to be able to be turned on but not off.  The fish tank lamp did not get turned off last night, for instance, and was on this morning when I got up. 

If the device is causing too much noise, what is the resolution for that?  For both these devices, I cannot change the device (one is a fish tank light and one is a towel heater).

I was thinking of buying two extenders to add them upstairs and on these circuits.  Would that help? 

[larryllix]

52 minutes ago, ctviggen1 said:

These do seem to be able to be turned on but not off.  The fish tank lamp did not get turned off last night, for instance, and was on this morning when I got up. 

If the device is causing too much noise, what is the resolution for that?  For both these devices, I cannot change the device (one is a fish tank light and one is a towel heater).

I was thinking of buying two extenders to add them upstairs and on these circuits.  Would that help? 

Don't get the extenders. I am surprised they are still produced.

Just plug-in any dual-band module and that will do the same function, a lampLinc or OnOff module. I am sure a usage can be found for another unit. in that location.

[Brian H]

The Extenders [2457D2 LampLinc with dimmer parts removed] or any Dual Band plug in module. May help if the signal is poor and the noise is not excessive.

Are the problem devices on a plug in module. Where you maybe able to connect a filter between the device and the Insteon Module or on a wired in module?

I have seen a few users here using an X10Pro XPNR {noise Reducer} on the problem device. I don't know how effective they are with noise on the power lines.

[hlaiii]

1 hour ago, ctviggen1 said:

These do seem to be able to be turned on but not off.  The fish tank lamp did not get turned off last night, for instance, and was on this morning when I got up. 

If the device is causing too much noise, what is the resolution for that?  For both these devices, I cannot change the device (one is a fish tank light and one is a towel heater).

I was thinking of buying two extenders to add them upstairs and on these circuits.  Would that help? 

You don't indicate how large your Insteon network is (number of active/switching modules).  The comments from the others above are all certainly helpful and as Brian H alluded, the Range Extenders can nonetheless be helpful in larger homes - certainly make sure that you are "bridging" the (usually) two electrical phases of your circuit breaker box.  

My system worked perfectly after installing, and then at one point a few years ago, things would become intermittent - sometimes certain devices not turning on, and not turning off in the morning, etc.  I eventually traced it all the way down to a noisy 2441V Thermostat Adapter (TA).  Not only was the TA intermittently functioning, but when it was NOT functioning I am guessing it was injecting "Insteon noise" into my home installation.  This was very frustrating for the year or two that I put up with this, not knowing what the source of the problem was of my flaky network, and particularly since I have two thermostats (and two TAs, one for each thermostat), and had to remove the TAs on a monthly basis to reset them. 

I replaced one of the TAs on a whim, and the network functioned reliably after that.  I have no better explanation other than that particular TA, though intermittently functioning, was injecting noise into my system and screwing things up.  That was a pain to track down, but if you still aren't getting success and have eliminated non-Insteon device noise throughout your house I would begin removing the power on your Insteon devices one-by-one.  If you disable the culprit, your Insteon network should return to nominal functionality.

 

[Brian H]

I had a pair of Hardware Revision 2 2443 Access Points {replaced now by the Range Extender} get flaky.  Start sending all kinds of weird things on the power lines. They where built on the same base 2413 main board and had the same issues as the 2413S PLM.

[ctviggen1]

My house is a 4,000+ square foot house, a large portion of that is for an in-law apartment where my mother lives.  I have a bunch of insteon switches and on/off modules and controlled outlets, though I'm at work now and can't tell you the exact number.  I have even more to install, once I get the time.  I think all switches on the second floor are Insteon.  Many on the first floor are Insteon, but not all.  All the garage switches and outside lights are Insteon.  Some of the switches in the in-law are Insteon, but most are  not.  I had the two extenders I currently own in the garage, on the opposite side of the house from the panel, but have now put them close to the panel (but maybe not on the opposite phases, will have to check).

As far as I can tell only two plug in (on/off) modules are having issues.  One is to a fish tank, and one is to a towel heater (though a GFCI outlet).  The plug in module to the fish tank is plugged into an outlet of a duplex receptacle along with another plug in module to a lamp (two plug in modules to the same outlet, using a small plug adapter, not a power strip).  There is a power strip in the opposite outlet on the duplex receptacle, but the power strip runs though a filter.  I do not believe the lamp has issues (it's also set to turn on/off automatically), but you can manually turn that off, so it gets confusing to debug it. No one touches the fist tank light or the towel heater.

Is there anyway I can get the isy994i to alert/put out an error when a program does not run correctly?  For instance, I believe these are not turning off (I think--I have months of data that is laborious to search through), or at least that's what I see the most.  If I could easily see when these are not working, it would help me to know whether any fix actually works or not.

[lilyoyo1]

Not directly. You could run a query after your program runs and receive a message based off the device status

[Techman]

You could add a line to the fish tank program that turns the module on or off.

This should be under the line of code that changes the state of your module and should run the IF clause in the program below.

I haven't tested this but it should work.

-------------------------------------------

IF

STATUS Fish tank module IS NOT RESPONDING

THEN

 do whatever

[ctviggen1]

Thank you for these comments.  Before seeing these, what I did was the following:

1) I updated my PLM to the latest version.

2) I took one my my repeaters/extenders and put it into the same outlet as the PLM.

3) This seemed to help, but I have a lamp and the fish tank light that are both plugged into one outlet but use two different on/off modules.  I realized they were set to go off at the exact same time.  So, I changed them to go off at different times.  (The lamp did not go off one night, but the fish tank did go off that night.)

The problem is that these are slow things to do, as you have to wait for an error to occur. One thing that I have been doing, which may affect this, is we are using a few outlets in the house like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CCGBB7M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can't add a filter to these.  I think we have two like this, one upstairs on the opposite side of the house from where the fish tank/lamp is, and one downstairs.  As for my house, all the lights on the second floor and basement and garage are Insteon, many of the lights on the first floor main house are Insteon, some of the lights in the in-law are Insteon.  This really should be enough to cover the whole house.

I will see if I get any more errors.  If not, I'll try what Techman suggested.

[arzoo]

Lately I've been getting random communication failures with insteon devices throughout my home and I'm wondering if the PLM could be the issue? The PLM and many of the switches and keypads throughout the house (about 80% of the switches in my home are insteon) have been in service for almost 10 years now. Over that time I've replaced some switches that failed (I currently have a keypad that won't respond), but never the PLM. I do have a replacement PLM I purchased some years ago but I was expecting a complete failure of the current PLM before making the switch. Occasionally the ISY has reported a failure of the PLM but removing and restoring power to the PLM seems to fix that. Anyway, just wondering if an old PLM could be the cause of what seems to be random communication failures? Thanks for any help.

[Brian H]

Is the old one the 2412S or 2413S? Date Code and Hardware Revision on the old one if you have it.

The 2413S has a history of failures. Some of the symptoms are no or low entries in the Link Database, cycling power fixes the PLM for awhile. Usually after two or more years of use.

If it is a 2412S and has many years of use. It maybe possible the power supply is starting to fail. Though they seem to last much longer than the 2413S.

[arzoo]

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

Is the old one the 2412S or 2413S? Date Code and Hardware Revision on the old one if you have it.

The 2413S has a history of failures. Some of the symptoms are no or low entries in the Link Database, cycling power fixes the PLM for awhile. Usually after two or more years of use.

If it is a 2412S and has many years of use. It maybe possible the power supply is starting to fail. Though they seem to last much longer than the 2413S.

It's a 2413S. The replacement I have is also a 2413S.