kclenden Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) According to a post on the Insteon Users Group page on Facebook, there are new Insteon products on the horizon! "Isaac Sanz announces new products "redesigned inside and out". This will be the "i3" range with new hardware and firmware. Insteon i3 Dial is a rotary lighting control - tap button to turn on/off, rotate for brightness. i3 Outlet - tamper-resistant, dual-control outlets, 15A capacity. Product pages at insteon.com soon." Edited January 6, 2023 by kclenden 2
lilyoyo1 Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 26 minutes ago, kclenden said: According to a post on the Insteon Users Group page on Facebook, there are new Insteon products on the horizon! "Isaac Sanz announces new products "redesigned inside and out". This will be the "i3" range with new hardware and firmware. Insteon i3 Dial is a rotary lighting control - tap button to turn on/off, rotate for brightness. i3 Outlet - tamper-resistant, dual-control outlets, 15A capacity. Product pages at insteon.com soon." It's just the nokia stuff. They're much better than the old insteon stuff. If Ra3 never came out, I'd be willing to use it.
gregf Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 Wonder if there will be issues using with UD. Or if they will help if there is.
MrBill Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, gregf said: Wonder if there will be issues using with UD. Or if they will help if there is. On today's Insteon Webinar they made a point of saying that they would support and provide needed information to 3rd parties wanting to add the new products to 3rd party controllers. UD's complaint with the former insteon is that they wouldn't do that. Will have to see if UD gets what they need in a timely manner without having to pull teeth to get it. 5
kclenden Posted January 6, 2023 Author Posted January 6, 2023 57 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: It's just the nokia stuff. They're much better than the old insteon stuff. Yeah, but the Nokia stuff was never released, so it seems new to me. 🙂 1
matapan Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 The i3 offering looks very clean and well designed. Something equating to products Apple might have offered if they produced switches and plugs. Nothing on the market I've seen so far looks as clean as this offering, other than maybe those touch sensitive display switches from one of the myriad of Chinese vendors out there. Another reason I personally would hesitate moving away from Insteon is the lack of nicely designed product. So much of what is out there looks amateurish in design. Z-Wave switches in particular are just awful in this respect. Head scratching proportions, supersize indicators that aren't to proper scale. How much does it cost for any of these major companies to hire a proper industrial designer? 2
matapan Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: It's just the nokia stuff. They're much better than the old insteon stuff. If Ra3 never came out, I'd be willing to use it. The Ra3 line is very nicely designed. Good design meets proper engineering. The best of all worlds, if you can afford it.
jec6613 Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 On 1/6/2023 at 3:12 PM, MrBill said: On today's Insteon Webinar they made a point of saying that they would support and provide needed information to 3rd parties wanting to add the new products to 3rd party controllers. UD's complaint with the former insteon is that they wouldn't do that. Will have to see if UD gets what they need in a timely manner without having to pull teeth to get it. Now to see if they actually do it, and if UDI has the capability to add them to their code base in a reasonable time with all of the z-wave and matter stuff going on right now.
jwagner010 Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 The 4 button Nokia key pad is nice, hopefully they release that. Even better if a Matter version with similar design comes out whether from Insteon or others. Are scenes supported in matter?
Bumbershoot Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 23 minutes ago, jwagner010 said: Are scenes supported in matter? I doubt that scenes will be implemented the same as in Insteon. Thread/Matter does support multicast, however, which might provide an adequate implementation of "scenes" between thread enabled devices. I would imagine that some controller would have to be involved - instead of the devices simply chatting between themselves - but I haven't looked into it
lilyoyo1 Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, jwagner010 said: The 4 button Nokia key pad is nice, hopefully they release that. Even better if a Matter version with similar design comes out whether from Insteon or others. Are scenes supported in matter? Its really nice. Looks and feels much better than their current kpls. I doubt insteon will release one that's directly matter based based but once their new hub supports matter (or udi supports both), there's a good chance that it could be used with matter. I can see scenes being managed the way they currently are with Google, HK, udi, and Alexa. Ie: all devices triggered as 1 group but different technologies will turn on 1 at a time Edited January 8, 2023 by lilyoyo1
jec6613 Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, jwagner010 said: The 4 button Nokia key pad is nice, hopefully they release that. Even better if a Matter version with similar design comes out whether from Insteon or others. Are scenes supported in matter? Not scenes in the Insteon sense, but since it's IP based the speed should be sufficient to make it irrelevant assuming the controlling device has a reasonable IP stack, even before the multicast support. On a 60 Hz AC system, assuming devices respond in less than 16 ms they'll all start a dim/brighten on the same A/C cycle, which for dimmers means at exactly the same time. For our friends on 50 Hz systems, that's 20 ms. If the controlling device can issue commands in sequence in the sub-ms range, it'll appear to be a native scene. There are a lot of dependencies on how good your Wi-Fi is and how congested it is, of course, but even if they respond within 100 ms that should be fine for most people to avoid visible popcorning. Additionally, Matter can be exposed by an Insteon, ZigBee/Thread, Lutron, or similar hub device which does support native scenes. For larger installs, this is a much better choice than native Matter devices to keep latency low and keep from overcrowding the IP network (even a /23 fills up fast with HA devices) and more importantly the Wi-Fi network where each device demands a timeslice on the WAPs. Edited January 8, 2023 by jec6613
Goose66 Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 On 1/6/2023 at 3:12 PM, MrBill said: would support and provide needed information to 3rd parties wanting to add the new products to 3rd party controllers. I am assuming 3rd parties that they deem worthy and that pay required “licensing” fees. But will they add a local API to their hub for open access to all software products? No. Because it limits future potential revenue streams — specifically subscription services to their control website.
MrBill Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Goose66 said: I am assuming 3rd parties that they deem worthy and that pay required “licensing” fees. But will they add a local API to their hub for open access to all software products? No. Because it limits future potential revenue streams — specifically subscription services to their control website. You be the judge about what they mean, here's the link to the replay, the password is zu.2Hs$U and the Question and Answer begins about 24:35... straight from the CEO's mouth. (be sure to continue watching until the next question). Edited January 8, 2023 by MrBill
Techman Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 Here's the link for the Insteon (previously Nokia) rotary dial dimmer https://shop.insteon.com/products/i3-dial Not sure if it supports fast on/off, or if it supports a preset on level. Its firmware is field upgradable. The product is supposed to be available this month (1/2023)
Goose66 Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 So from the CEO, they are emphasizing and supporting their product “Director” but state “i3 is not proprietary it is absolutely open-ended as Insteon has always been.” I read that to mean same support for third-party software vendors as has always been available to Insteon and all development work will focus on Director. Thus no API will be forthcoming.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Techman said: Here's the link for the Insteon (previously Nokia) rotary dial dimmer https://shop.insteon.com/products/i3-dial Not sure if it supports fast on/off, or if it supports a preset on level. Its firmware is field upgradable. The product is supposed to be available this month (1/2023) It supports fast on. There's no preset but itll turn on at the last brightness setting when you push the dial in and firmware upgradeable via their hub.
Balok Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 These devices look very nice, but I need to know my ISY will support them before I buy. Insteon, one hopes, realizes this and will do everything it can to help, not hinder, third party developers.
kclenden Posted January 11, 2023 Author Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Balok said: These devices look very nice, but I need to know my ISY will support them before I buy. My sentiments exactly. Perhaps each of us should send that message to Insteon via their contact form: https://www.insteon.com/contact-us
jec6613 Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/8/2023 at 6:40 PM, Goose66 said: So from the CEO, they are emphasizing and supporting their product “Director” but state “i3 is not proprietary it is absolutely open-ended as Insteon has always been.” I read that to mean same support for third-party software vendors as has always been available to Insteon and all development work will focus on Director. Thus no API will be forthcoming. I mean, not exactly true... for most of its existance Insteon was quite open about things, it's only the last few years (relatively speaking) that have caused issues. Which I guess is 6 or 7 years now with the MSII launch.
firstone Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 When Insteon originally came out it was I1 engine. Links had to be written one byte at a time, etc. When I2 came out, which is all of current devices, it was a huge change in protocol. If i3 devices are slightly different, it's one thing. But if it's new Insteon engine and requires a huge change in IoX code, it remains to be seen if UDI will want to support it, especially, given limited number of such devices at this time. A node server could be potential solution but Insteon protocol, with linking, etc is not for a faint of heart. Also, not sure how it could co-exist with current Insteon functionality in IoX.
Goose66 Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, jec6613 said: I mean, not exactly true... for most of its existance Insteon was quite open about things, it's only the last few years (relatively speaking) that have caused issues. Which I guess is 6 or 7 years now with the MSII launch. I am coming specifically from the position of an API for the hub. They have allowed other software to access through their PLMs, but that means the software vendor (and any node server) has to be handle EVERYTHING, including adding and removing devices, device configuration, scene setup, etc. If they wanted to sell a great HA solution (IMHO) , they would provide a hub that provides management and configuration of devices as well as access to those devices through a variety of mechanisms, including open protocols like Matter as well as a published (local) API. They have never done that. If they also have a great software product, like Director (never seen it), then maybe folks will use that too. But let it stand on its own two feet. Don't force users who want their hardware to also use their (potentially inferior) software. Edited January 11, 2023 by Goose66
PatPend Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 The rotary control is nice, but not nice enough to endure much pain to use it. 1
jec6613 Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Goose66 said: I am coming specifically from the position of an API for the hub. They have allowed other software to access through their PLMs, but that means the software vendor (and any node server) has to be handle EVERYTHING, including adding and removing devices, device configuration, scene setup, etc. If they wanted to sell a great HA solution (IMHO) , they would provide a hub that provides management and configuration of devices as well as access to those devices through a variety of mechanisms, including open protocols like Matter as well as a published (local) API. They have never done that. If they also have a great software product, like Director (never seen it), then maybe folks will use that too. But let it stand on its own two feet. Don't force users who want their hardware to also use their (potentially inferior) software. They actually did offer all that through the Hub... for the original Hub when it launched over a decade ago - heck, it even had a basic HTTP interface for the whole setup that exposed everything. Before that was the networked PLM that you could use with PC software (HouseLinc? I think) to configure it and it would also expose everything over a standard basic HTTP interface so anything could hook it. And a number of AV vendors took advantage of it before they got into their own lighting - Elan and URC, among others, used it as one of their lighting options before they brought more sophisticated control in house. The Hub 2 and MSII came out relatively close to each other and were when things locked down, but what you're asking for existed for the bulk of Insteon's history.
MrBill Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) Anyone know what wall plate works with the i3 rotary dimmer? single gang doesn't seem to be a problem, I'm sure there's one in the box. But what 2,3,4 and more gang? Any device could be in the other slots.... Answered my own question... it's still a Decora style device. Edited January 11, 2023 by MrBill
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