Support Thread: 5.0.16C (ISY994)

[jaygroh]

I think I figured it out at least for the programs. I had to remove all devices from the scene and add them back before I got a simple program to turn on and off a light.

When I want to adjust a scene in a program I select Adjust scene. Scene = Scene1, Controller = Motion Sensor, Set = what device to change, To = Insteon, then set the settings.

I dont remember the ISY wanting to write updates to the Motion Sensors every time a scene is changed. The scene change still works even if I dont manually let them update. Is this normal?

 

My IR Linc still does not work at all in the ISY. I've tried removing it and adding it back to a scene but when I go to the scene and turn it on nothing happens.

I dont really have a remote for the TV. The original remote does not work 99% of the time and the only other device I had to control the TV was my old Note 3. Personally I never liked the Insteon IR Linc. It would lose settings every few times it was powered off if the power went out. Also because of my TV the IR sensor is behind the rear projector screen and I had to put the transmitter inside the TV for it to work. Total PITA. If I had to buy a remote or something I would rather have something that works with the ISY. If anyone has a suggestion on an IR blaster that can do the whole room that would be great.

[beninsteon]

9 minutes ago, jaygroh said:

If anyone has a suggestion on an IR blaster that can do the whole room that would be great.

Harmony Hub (I hate recommending anything Logitech given their history but there's nothing else like it on the market). https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Control-Entertainment-Devices/dp/B00N3RFC4Q/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=harmony+hub&qid=1580775499&sr=8-2

Integrates into ISY for total control of IR devices via Polyglot.

Edited February 4, 2020 by beninsteon

[jaygroh]

I did not know about this Polyglot. Very cool. Can even integrate a Tesla. Just need to get one first. Oh and my SolarEdge system. I guess I'm going to be busy seeing what this can do.

I'll keep the Logitech harmony on my wish list while I look around for other devices. If it is the only one like you said it seems like it will do the job. Thank you for the suggestion.

Edited February 4, 2020 by jaygroh

[asbril]

6 minutes ago, jaygroh said:

I did not know about this Polyglot. Very cool. Can even integrate a Tesla. Just need to get one first.

I'll keep the Logitech harmony on my wish list while I look around for other devices. If it is the only one like you said it seems like it will do the job. Thank you for the suggestion.

I use the Harmony Hub nodeserver in conjunction with the AVRemote nodeserver. Together they have greatly facilitated my audio-video automation.

[stre1026]

I can confirm the latest beta fixed the issue with my Z-wave dongle.

[kclenden]

On 2/2/2020 at 3:24 PM, jaygroh said:

I get the Scene, Set, and To is used for but why specify a controller? Is the above code the correct way to adjust a scene?

At their very basic, Insteon scenes are a relationship between one controller and one or more responders.  For each device activated by that controller, you define the desired ON value and Ramp Rate.  This allows you to send out one command, scene ON or scene OFF, and have many devices be activated at the same time.  With the ISY, a scene can have many controllers, but at the low level it's still a bunch of one controller to multiple responder scenes.  So in your programs, you need to specify the scene, controller and device to adjust ON and Ramp Rate.  You might think, but I have only one controller in my scene - the Motion Sensor - so why should I have to specify the controller?  That's because you really have two controllers in your scene - the motion sensor and the ISY. To set what happens when the scene is activated by the ISY the scene name and controller name will always be the same.

5 hours ago, jaygroh said:

I dont remember the ISY wanting to write updates to the Motion Sensors every time a scene is changed. The scene change still works even if I dont manually let them update. Is this normal?

I don't remember whether the ISY tried to write scene updates to the MS's in V4, but you're not the first one to have this recollection, so you're probably right.  It is normal in V5 though.  If your MS's are battery operated, you really should update your scene change program to only run when the MS is awake.  This will prevent a host of possible undesirable consequences later, but is problematic as your MS's probably won't be awke at the time you want to change your scene, and really the only way to know your MS is awake is to wait until it sends out an ON or OFF command.

[markarmer]

Programs stop after updating a variable...
I have several programs that I've used for many years which update multiple variables based on a device state.

A very basic example of that would be the 'Then' section of a counter, it is changed, then the init also changes, such as:

$Counter_Test += 1
Wait 1 seconds
$Counter_Test Init To $Counter_Test

These counters all used to work perfectly and I rely on them heavily for irrigation and counting rain however now, as soon as the variable updates (Line one above: $Counter_Test += 1) the programs stop. In the example above, I can change the Wait to minutes and have the program then turn on a light or something rather than the init but it still won't go beyond the first line where the variable changes.  If I put the variable change half way through a program, the program runs through all steps correctly then stops as soon as the variable changes. The variable is updated correctly in line one, but the program will not go beyond that step.

Edited February 4, 2020 by markarmer

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, markarmer said:

Programs stop after updating a variable...
I have several programs that I've used for many years which update multiple variables based on a device state.

A very basic example of that would be the 'Then' section of a counter, it is changed, then the init also changes, such as:

$Counter_Test += 1
Wait 1 seconds
$Counter_Test Init To $Counter_Test

These counters all used to work perfectly and I rely on them heavily for irrigation and counting rain however now, as soon as the variable updates (Line one above: $Counter_Test += 1) the programs stop. In the example above, I can change the Wait to minutes and have the program then turn on a light or something rather than the init but it still won't go beyond the first line where the variable changes.  If I put the variable change half way through a program, the program runs through all steps correctly then stops as soon as the variable changes. The variable is updated correctly in line one, but the program will not go beyond that step.

Duplicate post from another thread.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by larryllix

[jaygroh]

I just wanted to update that it seems like my programs are working at the moment even though the motion sensors all want updated every time the program makes a scene change. If I can make the same changes in a program without the motion sensors wanting to update I will gladly take programming code suggestions.

I still cannot get my IR Linc to respond to commands from the ISY. It would be nice to know if support was dropped or if this might be a bug.

Log shows this when I click the On button in the scene.
Wed 02/05/2020 18:27:03 : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 00 00 1A CF 11 00
Wed 02/05/2020 18:27:03 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 00.00.1A CF 11 00 06          LTONRR (00)

I know this might be a pain to suggest to people who are installing this RC/Future RC or even the final version when released but I think if it was highly suggested to do a factory reset and rebuild the entire network of devices from scratch it might be best to do that. But thats just from my experience upgrading from the 4.x branch to this RC1. I know other people have not had any problems upgrading. The one thing I have not done yet to try to get my IR Linc to work is to make a backup, do a reset, and just see if that device works on its own.

[lilyoyo1]

16 minutes ago, jaygroh said:

 

I know this might be a pain to suggest to people who are installing this RC/Future RC or even the final version when released but I think if it was highly suggested to do a factory reset and rebuild the entire network of devices from scratch it might be best to do that. But thats just from my experience upgrading from the 4.x branch to this RC1. I know other people have not had any problems upgrading. The one thing I have not done yet to try to get my IR Linc to work is to make a backup, do a reset, and just see if that device works on its own.

That's simply over kill especially if one has a large network. The hour it takes to fix problem programs (for most people) is waaay less than the time it would take to rebuild a whole system

[j.rieff]

I have been following the Version 5.0.xx discussion for quite awhile. Currently, I am running V4.7.3. I have a little bit of apprehension based on several of the experiences. I have well over 100 devices in my network with multiple scenes and programs associated with these devices. Some of the devices are battery operated - Motion Sensor I, Motion Sensor 2, single button keypad, multiple button keypad. Right now, everything is working great except for the Motion Sensor II. they do not recognize light and dark so I have a program that turn exterior lights on/off when it is dark outside (based on sunset and sunrise) rather than using the internal logic of the motion sensor II. Unfortunately, in those installations I am going through lots of batteries since motion is always sensed. So, I have been looking forward to Version 5.0.xx for some time. 

Having said that I will probably be installing Version 5.0.xx this weekend unless someone convinces me otherwise. I will need to make sure I have a backup before I start. I will also need to establish a plan to update /verify each device. Currently, I have organized (into folders) by where the devices are located - room, garage, outdoors (with specific locations - front door, driveway, …)

 

Now, do I update the admin console to the 5.0.xx console before or after I perform the firmware update?

 

Any other recommendations or suggestions will be much appreciated. I have already downloaded the new firmware and admin console. I have also printed the instructions from the first notification in this discussion list. 

 

Thanks again. 

[DaveStLou]

11 minutes ago, j.rieff said:

Now, do I update the admin console to the 5.0.xx console before or after I perform the firmware update?

Update the firmware first and then the admin console.

[kclenden]

3 hours ago, j.rieff said:

Any other recommendations or suggestions will be much appreciated.

The #1 thing I would suggest is to make a text copy of all your programs and folders.  Having a backup allows you to go back to what you had before, but it doesn't help you debug what you see in V5, while a text copy of your V4 programs does.  To make the text copy, right click on the very top folder of your "Programs" tree (in my case "My Programs") and choose "Copy to Clipboard".  Then open an editor, like Notepad, and select "paste".  Now you have a text copy of all your programs and folders, as well as their specific settings (e.g. folder conditions, run at startup, disabled).  Now when you're debugging in V5 you'll be able to see exactly how a program was setup in V4.  Here are several examples:

A program that was set to run at startup:

ISY Uptime - [ID 008E][Parent 0077][Run At Startup]

A program that was disabled:

Z10-DR-Chandelier - [ID 0004][Parent 0001][Not Enabled]

Generally speaking, the most common things that people complain about the transition from V4 to V5 are programs that were disabled becoming enabled, programs that were set to run at startup no longer running at startup, and a couple Zwave oddities that I don't recall because I don't have any Zwave devices.  Your text copy of your programs will allow you to deal with the first two most common complaints.

Edited February 6, 2020 by kclenden

[larryllix]

25 minutes ago, kclenden said:

The #1 thing I would suggest is to make a text copy of all your programs and folders.  Having a backup allows you to go back to what you had before, but it doesn't help you debug what you see in V5, while a text copy of your V4 programs does.  To make the text copy, right click on the very top folder of your "Programs" tree (in my case "My Programs") and choose "Copy to Clipboard".  Then open an editor, like Notepad, and select "paste".  Now you have a text copy of all your programs and folders, as well as their specific settings (e.g. folder conditions, run at startup, disabled).  Now when you're debugging in V5 you'll be able to see exactly how a program was setup in V4.  Here are several examples:

A program that was set to run at startup:

ISY Uptime - [ID 008E][Parent 0077][Run At Startup]

A program that was disabled:

Z10-DR-Chandelier - [ID 0004][Parent 0001][Not Enabled]

Generally speaking, the most common things that people complain about the transition from V4 to V5 are programs that were disabled becoming enabled, programs that were set to run at startup no longer running at startup, and a couple Zwave oddities that I don't recall because I don't have any Zwave devices.  Your text copy of your programs will allow you to deal with the first two most common complaints.

I keep reading people posting that advise but all I have ever get is the folder..
 

My Programs - [ID 0001][Parent 0000]

Folder Conditions for 'My Programs'

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
   Allow the programs in this folder to run.
 

UPDATE: I see UDI has now split it into two options. "Copy to clipboard", and "Copy folder to clipboard"

"Copy folder to clipboard" is what works if v4.xxx has it.

Edited February 6, 2020 by larryllix

[kclenden]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

"Copy folder to clipboard" is what works if v4.xxx has it.

Interesting.  I'm using V5 (but admittedly only 5.0.15A) and "Copy to Clipboard" works for me.  I get all the programs and folders beneath "My Programs".

[Teken]

12 hours ago, j.rieff said:

I have been following the Version 5.0.xx discussion for quite awhile. Currently, I am running V4.7.3. I have a little bit of apprehension based on several of the experiences. I have well over 100 devices in my network with multiple scenes and programs associated with these devices. Some of the devices are battery operated - Motion Sensor I, Motion Sensor 2, single button keypad, multiple button keypad. Right now, everything is working great except for the Motion Sensor II. they do not recognize light and dark so I have a program that turn exterior lights on/off when it is dark outside (based on sunset and sunrise) rather than using the internal logic of the motion sensor II. Unfortunately, in those installations I am going through lots of batteries since motion is always sensed. So, I have been looking forward to Version 5.0.xx for some time. 

Having said that I will probably be installing Version 5.0.xx this weekend unless someone convinces me otherwise. I will need to make sure I have a backup before I start. I will also need to establish a plan to update /verify each device. Currently, I have organized (into folders) by where the devices are located - room, garage, outdoors (with specific locations - front door, driveway, …)

 

Now, do I update the admin console to the 5.0.xx console before or after I perform the firmware update?

 

Any other recommendations or suggestions will be much appreciated. I have already downloaded the new firmware and admin console. I have also printed the instructions from the first notification in this discussion list. 

 

Thanks again. 

If you have the pro version of the 994 Series Controller a huge time saver is to disable all battery writes. Doing so will allow you to update a single device when you're ready opposed to letting the system endlessly write / rewrite which extends the time to restore / swap a device.

Keep in mind my reply is specifically calling out the scenario when you need to write to a large amount of battery operated devices. Another method is to use the automated process of using a control / heart beat condition to push the changes to those end devices. This process does not work consistently on all Insteon hardware but when it does it is surely a great time saver!

[larryllix]

9 hours ago, kclenden said:

Interesting.  I'm using V5 (but admittedly only 5.0.15A) and "Copy to Clipboard" works for me.  I get all the programs and folders beneath "My Programs".

Must have been in a state of flux. I am using v5.0.16c.  

[j.rieff]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I made a "text" copy of all my programs. 

 

Now, it there a way to make a similar copy of the entire network? This will make it much easier to know each of the device addresses (and names) if I need to remove and add the device as suggested by several other posts?

 

Thanks again. 

[Teken]

21 minutes ago, j.rieff said:

Thanks for all the suggestions. I made a "text" copy of all my programs. 

 

Now, it there a way to make a similar copy of the entire network? This will make it much easier to know each of the device addresses (and names) if I need to remove and add the device as suggested by several other posts?

 

Thanks again. 

Tools -> Generate Topology: This will give you the entire listing of the hardware the system has on hand. Specifically, it will call out the name, Insteon ID, Location, Type. If you have never used the *Notes* feature start now!

I use this specifically to document when a piece of hardware was replaced or failed and the reason for. Or if I start to see odd behavior this area allows me track it for historic recall. I also use it to track when I replaced any batteries in the network.

To use the notes right mouse click on any piece of hardware in the device tree and scroll down to *Notes*. This will open a new window where you simply enter what ever your heart desires.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Teken

[j.rieff]

Thanks. The network topology listing is great. Exactly what I need. 

[dbwarner5]

On 2/5/2020 at 8:28 PM, j.rieff said:

I have been following the Version 5.0.xx discussion for quite awhile. Currently, I am running V4.7.3. I have a little bit of apprehension based on several of the experiences. I have well over 100 devices in my network with multiple scenes and programs associated with these devices. Some of the devices are battery operated - Motion Sensor I, Motion Sensor 2, single button keypad, multiple button keypad. Right now, everything is working great except for the Motion Sensor II. they do not recognize light and dark so I have a program that turn exterior lights on/off when it is dark outside (based on sunset and sunrise) rather than using the internal logic of the motion sensor II. Unfortunately, in those installations I am going through lots of batteries since motion is always sensed. So, I have been looking forward to Version 5.0.xx for some time. 

Having said that I will probably be installing Version 5.0.xx this weekend unless someone convinces me otherwise. I will need to make sure I have a backup before I start. I will also need to establish a plan to update /verify each device. Currently, I have organized (into folders) by where the devices are located - room, garage, outdoors (with specific locations - front door, driveway, …)

 

Now, do I update the admin console to the 5.0.xx console before or after I perform the firmware update?

 

Any other recommendations or suggestions will be much appreciated. I have already downloaded the new firmware and admin console. I have also printed the instructions from the first notification in this discussion list. 

 

Thanks again. 

@j.rieff  I had no problem in my upgrade.. see my post earlier in this thread. 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by dbwarner5

[j.rieff]

Just completed the firmware updated from 4.7.3 to 5.0.16C. Upgrade went much better than anticipated based on my previous apprehensions. I have tried a few scenes such was mutli-way switch configurations and motion sensors turning on hallway lights. So far so good. Getting ready to updated Motion Sensor II's that are outdoors so I can let ambient light control the whether or not the sensor turns on the outdoor lights rather than having a program determine whether or not it is dark out (using sunset and sunrise parameters. Obviously, that test will come tonight. Have not looked at any programs yet. 

I did look at my configuration data just to make. I noticed a informational exclamation mark next to the NTP Pool Server entry. Currently pool.ntrp.org is in that entry. Should it be changed?

[sdynak]

10 minutes ago, j.rieff said:

Just completed the firmware updated from 4.7.3 to 5.0.16C. Upgrade went much better than anticipated based on my previous apprehensions. I have tried a few scenes such was mutli-way switch configurations and motion sensors turning on hallway lights. So far so good. Getting ready to updated Motion Sensor II's that are outdoors so I can let ambient light control the whether or not the sensor turns on the outdoor lights rather than having a program determine whether or not it is dark out (using sunset and sunrise parameters. Obviously, that test will come tonight. Have not looked at any programs yet. 

I did look at my configuration data just to make. I noticed a informational exclamation mark next to the NTP Pool Server entry. Currently pool.ntrp.org is in that entry. Should it be changed?

 Try this - pool.ntp.org

[j.rieff]

Apologies for my fat fingers. The NTP Pool Server is currently pool.ntp.org   I accidently typed pool.ntrp.org into my previous response on this forum. 

 

There is one of those Red Information exclamation marks in front of the field.

[Teken]

Just now, j.rieff said:

Apologies for my fat fingers. The NTP Pool Server is currently pool.ntp.org   I accidently typed pool.ntrp.org into my previous response on this forum. 

 

There is one of those Red Information exclamation marks in front of the field.

Just hit update and reboot the ISY Series Controller . . .