n4bos Posted April 16, 2023 Author Posted April 16, 2023 Well I feel better... Maybe it's NOT me! To answer Bill's question, I had not upgraded from 4.5 because everything worked and I saw no need to mess with it. IF that will fix this, I guess I'll do it but since it seems to be a system problem and not on our end, I'll wait and see what UDI says. Thanks for the other replies. Steve
MrBill Posted April 16, 2023 Posted April 16, 2023 11 hours ago, n4bos said: Well I feel better... Maybe it's NOT me! To answer Bill's question, I had not upgraded from 4.5 because everything worked and I saw no need to mess with it. IF that will fix this, I guess I'll do it but since it seems to be a system problem and not on our end, I'll wait and see what UDI says. Thanks for the other replies. Steve and others running V4, You should probably think about upgrading sometime soon, not only to v5, but also to newer hardware, support ends 6/1/23 for the ISY994 https://www.universal-devices.com/byebye994/ 1
n4bos Posted April 16, 2023 Author Posted April 16, 2023 Bill, I have thought of upgrading to the newest firmware. I saw mention that you helped someone with that. Are there compatibility issues with installed devices? If it's just a simple upgrade, I'll do it. I have a SPARE ISY994i so I figured I was okay for a while but maybe with the difficulty of replacing Insteon devices as they die, I might need to look at alternatives. In your opinion, should I go ahead and make the jump to eisy or run my present (and backup) 994i until they both fail? AS always, thanks for your help! Steve
MrBill Posted April 16, 2023 Posted April 16, 2023 1 hour ago, n4bos said: I have thought of upgrading to the newest firmware. I saw mention that you helped someone with that. Are there compatibility issues with installed devices? If it's just a simple upgrade, I'll do it. I have a SPARE ISY994i so I figured I was okay for a while but maybe with the difficulty of replacing Insteon devices as they die, I might need to look at alternatives. In your opinion, should I go ahead and make the jump to eisy or run my present (and backup) 994i until they both fail? There's two upgrades, and yes you should do both of them. V4 to V5 on the 994i hardware is the first step. V5 is a prerequisite for migration to eisy. It's fairly straight forward now, especially if your system is currently Insteon and doesn't contain z-wave. If your "Programs" use the command "adjust scene", those won't be automatically translated and require manual attention. If you do have Z-wave and it's the older 300 series board, stop at version 5.0.16c. No z-wave, or an newer 500 series board go directly to v5.3.4. In addition to a "File backup ISY", I would also suggest a text backup of programs (copy root program folder to clipboard and paste into notepad and save as whatevername.txt), upload the still zipped new firmware file to the ISY and the ISY reboots itself during the upgrade. Clear Java including installed applications and applets, get rid of any files you have named admin.jnlp or start.jnlp and reinstall the launcher. Once the admin console is opended again first check Help > About for matching firmware and UI versions, then check Programs tab > Summary sub-tab, look for the color yellow... if you see any that program needs human help, probably because it contained "adjust-scene" (that text backup of programs come in handy here).. also if you had any intentionally disabled programs they will need to be re-disabled. This has been the "nutshell version" there are more detailed versions of that process... actually a recent one of @Geddy's post is more complete than any I've done. You also gain the ability to use UD mobile after this upgrade. The ability to use node servers also exists but unless you have a Polisy or eisy you're not going to have anywhere to run the node servers themselves. After upgrading to V5, the second upgrade is migration to eisy. There are also many posts on the pro's of doing so, but the nutshell version, it's much faster, it will be supported by UD for the longest in the future going forward. You could always put this one off for awhile if there's little interest is expanding your automations beyond what they are today, but if this is your path, always be sure to have a good current backup of your ISY994 on hand. There will come a day you will need it because the hardware has failed and UD is no longer supporting it, if you have a current backup at that point you can still migrate, but without a current backup you will be starting over. I would get the upgrade to V5 completed because there will come a time soon that UD won't fix things like "V4 certificate issues" that appears to be a problem for you at this point. I think they'll at least support migration from V5 to eisy for a long time to come... as long as you already have the current V5 backup or can still make one. 1
Vwas Posted April 16, 2023 Posted April 16, 2023 Rest assured, once we've resolved this expired V4 certificate issue, I'll be upgrading to V5 ASAP, and most likely to EISY soon after it's back in stock. If anything, this experience has taught me that my ISY wasn't the "totally independent of the outside world" beast that I once thought it was. While I've only participated in this forum directly once or twice over the 10+ years that I've owned my ISY, I feel like a regular, as I've been lurking here on and off for years. Over that time, many of these posts and the replies given to them have provided me with a greater insight and understanding of the ISY's capabilities, and knowledge of how to use them most effectively. When I came home yesterday afternoon and faced a non responsive admin console, for a few moments I was totally taken aback and at a loss as to what to do next, until I showed up here. I'd like to extend my gratitude and offer kudos to all of the regulars in this community, for willingly sharing your knowledge and coming to the assistance of others like myself, in times of need. That's the main reason why I'm so confident and willing to continue my way down this UDI/EISY path going forward. Thanks again... 2
n4bos Posted April 16, 2023 Author Posted April 16, 2023 What Vwas said.... I too appreciate all the help I've received here, especially from MrBill who also convinced me to upgrade my router to an Edge Router which has been an enormous improvement over the "consumer grade" stuff I was running before. As soon as I get a stable system back, I'll do the upgrade and also order an eisy soon after. BTW, in my case, ALL my modules are Insteon so it sounds like it should be a fairly simple upgrade. I do have another somewhat related question that I haven't been able to find an answer to... Before I started using the launcher, I would simply go to my ISY by its IP address and port. Now when I do that, it says I need Jave 2+ or better but I have the latest Java installed. I can't remember (or for that matter, find) how to make it realize that Jave is there so I can get to the ISY without the launcher. If you could refresh me, that too would be appreciated. Best regards, Steve
MrBill Posted April 16, 2023 Posted April 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, n4bos said: I do have another somewhat related question that I haven't been able to find an answer to... Before I started using the launcher, I would simply go to my ISY by its IP address and port. Now when I do that, it says I need Jave 2+ or better but I have the latest Java installed. I can't remember (or for that matter, find) how to make it realize that Jave is there so I can get to the ISY without the launcher. If you could refresh me, that too would be appreciated. Due to browser security you have about 2 choices now to get the admin console. One is the Launcher, and that is the preferred method in most cases. The second method is to go to http://IP.OF.THE.ISY/admin.jnlp and save admin.jnlp someplace handy like the desktop. The problem with this method is you absolutely have to remember to get a new admin.jnlp file anytime you update firmware, and it gets more confusing if you have multiple ISY's and need multiple admin.jnlp files. The browser page that opens an admin console is a thing of the past. If security level is decreased to allow it, other bad actors can take advantage and run their own java.... The Launcher didn't come along until like 2018, it was created in an effort to solve the browser security issue.
n4bos Posted April 16, 2023 Author Posted April 16, 2023 Thanks Bill. Guess I'll wait until the launcher works again and do it all then. Appreciate your help! Steve
n4bos Posted April 16, 2023 Author Posted April 16, 2023 Bill, http://IP.OF.THE.ISY/admin.jnlp got me back in. I'll probably wait until the launcher is working to upgrade but at least I have access again. Thanks!! Steve 2
Vwas Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 Well Steve, note that this does get you back in - but only ONCE. On the next login attempt, you're back in the same boat: You'll need to clear the Java cache, then delete and download a new admin.jnlp file to get back in again - and REPEAT this process for every repeated login attempt. I've done this successfully 3 or 4 times so far. I haven't entered a support ticket yet - looks like you need a portal account to do so? At the moment I don't have one. I guess my ISY has led a fairly sheltered life. I've never attempted to remotely access it through the web, or connect it to voice services, so I never bothered signing up for a portal account. At this point, I'm wondering if I feel brave enough to attempt the 5.3 upgrade on my next one shot access into the admin console. It's not clear to me what if any benefits might be gained by waiting for the certificate issue to be resolved, in the event that my upgrade attempt goes bad for some reason....
MrBill Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 20 minutes ago, Vwas said: looks like you need a portal account to do so? Portal Account: Yes, Portal Subscription: NO The portal login is free, just create an account. You are not charged unless you add an ISY and activate the 30 day free trial for a portal connection. UD is trying to use the portal as a single sign on (SSO), it's optional for signing in to the forum, after creating a portal account just link it from your forum account.
MrBill Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 25 minutes ago, Vwas said: At this point, I'm wondering if I feel brave enough to attempt the 5.3 upgrade on my next one shot access into the admin console. It's not clear to me what if any benefits might be gained by waiting for the certificate issue to be resolved, in the event that my upgrade attempt goes bad for some reason.... just be certain to have a current backup. 1
Solution n4bos Posted April 17, 2023 Author Solution Posted April 17, 2023 32 minutes ago, Vwas said: Well Steve, note that this does get you back in - but only ONCE. On the next login attempt, you're back in the same boat: You'll need to clear the Java cache, then delete and download a new admin.jnlp file to get back in again - and REPEAT this process for every repeated login attempt. I've done this successfully 3 or 4 times so far. I haven't entered a support ticket yet - looks like you need a portal account to do so? At the moment I don't have one. I guess my ISY has led a fairly sheltered life. I've never attempted to remotely access it through the web, or connect it to voice services, so I never bothered signing up for a portal account. At this point, I'm wondering if I feel brave enough to attempt the 5.3 upgrade on my next one shot access into the admin console. It's not clear to me what if any benefits might be gained by waiting for the certificate issue to be resolved, in the event that my upgrade attempt goes bad for some reason.... http://IP.OF.THE.ISY/admin.jnlp works every time for me. Go figure. Also, got a response to my ticket. The problem was apparently server cache and in my case, the launcher is working now. Steve 1
Geddy Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 45 minutes ago, n4bos said: Also, got a response to my ticket. The problem was apparently server cache and in my case, the launcher is working now. Thanks for the follow up on the ticket! Good to know it was a cache issue and maybe not certificate issue. Hopefully will begin working for others as the issue resolves.
Geddy Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Vwas said: At this point, I'm wondering if I feel brave enough to attempt the 5.3 upgrade on my next one shot access into the admin console. It's not clear to me what if any benefits might be gained by waiting for the certificate issue to be resolved, in the event that my upgrade attempt goes bad for some reason.... @Vwas, You're currently on 4.9.0 (based on your earlier post). I would certainly say upgrade to 5.3.4 (do you have/use z-wave?) There were substantial updates in underlying ISY code from 4.x to 5.x and the only direct migration path to eisy is with 5.3.4. There is quite a bit of effort that might be needed (See @MrBill's post earlier) and review the release notes. It's not an urgent need to upgrade, but is necessary if you plan to migrate to eisy.
n4bos Posted April 17, 2023 Author Posted April 17, 2023 I found that on my laptop, I had to delete the launcher and download a new one for it to work. Now it works fine. Great response from Michal at UDI... as usual! Steve 2
Vwas Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 OK, so I'm still not 100% sure of exactly what happened here, but my best guess is that there was a legacy shortcut on my desktop that was pointing to original launcher file with its stale cache entry. I'd renamed that shortcut "Admin Console" when I originally downloaded the launcher some time ago. Even though I thought I had downloaded a new launcher a few days ago, I was still clicking on that same old link, which continued to run that same old version with a cached certificate that was out of date. Following Steve's advice, I repeated the launcher download and noticed that it created another shortcut with a UD logo that was named "IoX launcher", After clicking on this new shortcut and running the new launcher, it finds my ISY and provides me with an Admin Console popup just as it should. Apologies for all the confusion and thanks again for all of the advice and guidance. With that behind me, I'm feeling a bit more confident about proceeding with the 5.3.4 upgrade. My system is 100% Insteon, and I don't use "Adjust Scene" in any of my programs. Upon Mr. Bill's advice, I did an ISY backup of the 4.9.0 configuration, and also created text backups of all of my ISY programs earlier today as an added measure of safety. If all goes according to plan, given my existing configuration, this upgrade should be as simple as pointing the admin console at the upgrade ZIP file, and letting it do its thing - correct? P.S. - I hedged my bets for the EISY upgrade and purchased a USB PLM for it - the mailman dropped it off at my doorstep about an hour ago. 1
DennisC Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 21 minutes ago, Vwas said: If all goes according to plan, given my existing configuration, this upgrade should be as simple as pointing the admin console at the upgrade ZIP file, and letting it do its thing - correct? You are going to want to follow the migration instructions here: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Eisy:User_Guide#Migration
MrBill Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, Vwas said: If all goes according to plan, given my existing configuration, this upgrade should be as simple as pointing the admin console at the upgrade ZIP file, and letting it do its thing - correct? You need to upgrade v4 to v5 before you can migrate to eisy. You'll need to download the zip file to your computer. (you can find the link in the current releases, look for the thread 5.3.4 (ISY994) - Last release for ISY994 when you reach the appropriate step of the instructions there will be two firmware links, you have Insteon, so you have a PLM and want the first file (even if you don't have z-wave). (The second file is for those that do not have an Insteon PLM.). Do not unzip the downloaded file. (if you have a mac you may need to change something to get the file to save without MacOS automatically extracting it.) In the admin console Help > Manually upgrade, select the file you downloaded to your computer. when the ISY reboots, clear you java cache including installed applications and applets, also delete any files you have named start.jnlp and admin.jnlp re-download the launcher file name start.jnlp and double click it after it downloads. the credentials will be reset to admin/admin first in the admin console, Help > About to make sure your firmware and UI are both 5.3.4 second go to programs tab > Summary sub-tab... look for the color yellow... if you have any those programs need manual edits. If you have any purposely disabled programs, they will need to be disabled again. If you need to search the text backup of your programs I believe its "Not enabled" that you need to search for.
Vwas Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 Well, after all the head scratching we went through together over the past few days, once I resolved my admin console issues, I was thinking that maybe I should quit while I was ahead. In hindsight, for me at least, the 4.9.0 to 5.3.4 upgrade couldn't have been any easier.... With this 5.3.4 upgrade in place, doesn't this provide me with the ability to use UD Mobile with my ISY? I know it requires a portal account, wondering if it also requires a paid subscription? My wife has been complaining about "all this stuff in this house that only YOU know how to use" for quite some time now. And that started me thinking... As for me, I bought my first X10 devices to enable automated and remote control of lighting and appliances when I was still in engineering school back in the late 70s. I've also been an avid audio video enthusiast since the days when buying your first killer audio system was regarded as a right of passage upon entering the workforce after graduating college. I've also taken more than my share of abuse over the years with regard to "how difficult it is to sit down and watch TV in this house..." I have a network accessible Pioneer Elite AV receiver in my current system. Right now I'm thinking that the EISY will provide me the ability to achieve customized one touch integration of all AV system functionality, while allowing the less technically inclined folks in the family to access it through their familiar smart phone devices. Maybe I can finally manage to walk away from all of this chaos as a hero - while having some fun in the process... 😊 Thanks again to all of those that helped along the way
Techman Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 If you use UD Mobile on your LAN you don't need a paid subscription. If you want to access your ISY remotely then you'll need a paid subscription.
Geddy Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Vwas said: With this 5.3.4 upgrade in place, doesn't this provide me with the ability to use UD Mobile with my ISY? I know it requires a portal account, wondering if it also requires a paid subscription? Congrats on the upgrade! Glad it went well. Indeed UD Mobile for remote access needs a portal subscription. But, it's the best deal you could ever ask for...It's $20 for TWO YEARS! (yes, less than $1/month!!!) (Even if you just do 1 year it's only $12!) And I see @Techman just replied...yes...if you just want to use the app while local you don't need a subscription. Personally I don't use apps all that much, but when I do it's 90%+ while away from home so the portal makes a lot of sense. 14 minutes ago, Vwas said: My wife has been complaining about "all this stuff in this house that only YOU know how to use" for quite some time now. And that started me thinking... Somebody in the last year or so had a similar issue of being the only one that knew what was going on. It's a little daunting to think about trying to document everything, but just hit the highlights. Make a document with links to UDI, UDI Forums, and to network items. That way if something happens to you somebody knows how to at least get support from the forums and/or start a support ticket with UDI to ask "how do I do xyz?". Have fun planning the growing options you have ahead of you!
n4bos Posted April 20, 2023 Author Posted April 20, 2023 As kind of closure to this thread, after getting everything working again, I did the upgrade to 5.3.4 as suggested rather painlessly. There were a few programs that came back ENABLED when they were supposed to be DISABLED but thanks to the suggestion to make a text copy of my programs, (I never realized that was possible) it was easy to go through and disable those that should be disabled. I did have to load a new version of Java and clear the cache a couple of times and then reload the launcher program to get it all working but I suspect I was rushing it and the ISY was not fully rebooted and running when I tried the first time or two. Overall, the upgrade was fairly easy and all programs and links appear to be working well. I did not have any Z-Wave (yet...) so that probably made it easier. Now I'm ready to make the eisy change when they get more in stock. Thanks to all to assisted in this effort. The customer support from Michel at UDI and the user forum are a large part of the usability and satisfaction of owning a Universal Devices controller. Steve 2
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