Home purchased with Insteon System, HELP nothing works!

[SteveT1]

Hello 

I’ve recently purchased a home with and Insteon (I think) system. Most of the light switches seem to be smartlabs 2476D

I have yet to find a hub in the house .. but I’m also not sure what to be looking for. 
 

there are many issues :

some dimmers have no status light and thus do nothing 

some dimmers have a status light on but still do nothing when switched 

some dimmers have led constantly cycling from lowest led to top led. And don’t switch anything  

some dimmers cycle the led from lowest to highest only after being switched , but don’t actually switch anything. 
 

some simmers flash red after being switched. 
 

needless to say it has been quite frustrating that over 50% of the switches on the walls don’t control anything. And some that did work when we moved in have now stopped working. 
I am trying to figure out if it is just an old system and many things have broken down? Or is there a central control hub that needs to be on for all this to work but since it is off nothing works right ?

I have no idea when the system was installed but I know it was 2 owners ago who did it so probably at least 5 or more years ago but possibly many more. I am not familiar with this system at all,, I cannot find a local electrician who is either. At this point I have non idea where to start , or if it is even worth trying to revive. 

how east is it to remove? can the ‘smart’ switches just all be swapped for dumb switches, or are they installed differently where that won’t work ?

anyone know of an Insteon tech that does trouble shooting via zoom service ? 
thank you!!
 

 

 

[Geddy]

@SteveT1 Welcome to the Universal Devices forums. Sounds like a pickle and hopefully this helps some...

This is an image of an Insteon hub:

What Universal Devices supplies works with Insteon switches and a wide range of other products. They are not related to Insteon.

Universal has several hub options.

ISY994 (now discontinued and out of (free) support window)

Polisy/Polisy Pro

eisy

 

Those are the hubs you might find if the prior owner left a hub. From the description you're giving it doesn't sound like they did. When an Insteon device cannot communicate to a hub or other devices it will flash red. 

Insteon switches without a hub present are just like "dumb" switches however, if the prior owner made direct links in them a single switch could control other devices.

The best option would be to take the faceplate off the switches and see if you see an Insteon sticker. Most of the time it's been on the silver tab at the top of the switch. 

Should like similar to this:

From there it has the model number on it. You might be able to find the user manual for the model(s) you have in a Google Search. Look for a factory reset method.

The typical reset might be:

• Pull the set button found at the bottom of the switch
  • sometimes you might need a small flat blade screwdriver to pull away from the wall
• Wait about 10 seconds
• Push in and HOLD the set button until the long beep stops
  • again, might need to press it in with the screwdriver to keep it pressed in
• Release the set button
• Device should beep (and/or double beep)

This removes any programming in the switch. The light might still blink red, but I don't think it would. It's been a while since I reset a device and tried to operate it without a controller. 

2 hours ago, SteveT1 said:

how east is it to remove? can the ‘smart’ switches just all be swapped for dumb switches, or are they installed differently where that won’t work ?

It's very easy to remove. It's just a switch. The "smart" portion of it would be controlled by an Insteon Hub or by another controller (like the Universal Devices options). The issue would be removing a switch that doesn't have a load just putting a dumb switch in wouldn't do anything either. At that point you would need an electrician or electrical tools to figure out where the wires went and what lights, plugs, or other things they controlled. You have 2 options...after resetting every switch keep them as "dumb" switches where they are or replace with other "dumb" switches.

Since you said it's an older system some old Insteon switches were just on/off switches, but had a light rail along the side. They wouldn't act as dimmers and if you press too long think they go into pairing mode. That might be why some might not work now if held too long. Maybe after a factory reset they would operate whatever is connected to their load (if anything). 

Since Insteon switches could be a smart controlled system they were easy to put somewhere that typical wiring wasn't available and could be linked to control something anywhere in the house. Sadly, without the hub to tell it what to turn on it's not working as the original owner programmed it to.

 

Finally, if you're interested in learning how to make them smart then take a look at the following sites:

https://www.insteon.com/ - This is the company that manufactures the switches/outlets/hubs 

https://www.universal-devices.com/ - The company related to these forums that makes and sells the current hub called the "eisy" that runs Insteon and has an adaptor for handling Z-Wave and Zigbee (with future support for Matter) as well as a whole list of plugins for other home automation programming under one roof. 

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page - the Wiki for the Universal Devices offering

 

Lastly: since these are old devices as you said they appear to be "Smartlab" devices. That's the old parent company for Insteon. They went out of business a last year. However, the Insteon name (and company) was revived by new owners (some former employees) and is back in business supplying some of the same devices, but also a new line of options. 

 

Hope this helps! Feel free to post if you have more questions or issues getting devices reset. 

As far as help directly from Insteon you could contact them through their website (linked above). 

[gogogadgetscott]

You likely could switch most of the switch out with a standard switch. If your load is wired directly to the 2476D you will have little issue switching. If the load is wired separately to control a remote responder, you will have trouble. The Instean system allows the linking of devices without a home controller. But few people operate like this. The ISY is a great controller and worth buying if you keep the switches. Start with the below-linked manual. After that, check out the UD Wiki. 

SwitchLinc Dimmer 2476D (insteon.com)

Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki (universal-devices.com)

[mango]

It's relatively easy to reinstall regular switches and dimmers, the wiring should be traditional and power everything the circuits are wired to.

[Jim P]

You should be able to reset these devices to factory settings and still use them as normal manual switches.. This might save you some work.. Should a switch not work after this then pursue  replacement.  You should be able to tell what switches you have by removing the switch cover plate if you can't tell. Those that look like light switches with a small white led on the bottom may be locked up and by pulling the led cover out an 1/8 inch or so then pushing it back may allow it to function again.

If you want to automate I have a ISY 994 that works that you can have for the price of shipping. You would need to purchase a PLM module to use it though..   The 994 is no longer supported, but for a simple home automation controller should work for you.

[paulbates]

Sorry about the frustration. More physical investigation is in order

• Was the house originally designed for smart switches, or the owner that installed the switches wasn't the orginal builder?  
  • In addition to the switches you can see, there may be Insteon inline or micro modules behind fixtures
  • Have you looked near the electrical panel for the hub/isy/controller? The switches are older, possibly powerline only - and the electrical panel is the center of the Insteon powerline network
     
• To the comment(s) already made above,  you should see if you can work around the problem to use the house
  • Buy a few regular switches from the hardware store
  • Pick a few switches in key areas causing the most pain.
    1. Factory reset the switch - here the manual, look at the bottom of page 14 (printed page #) 
    2. Did that work so the light switches on
       • Yes - move along to the next
       • No - replace with a regular switch
    3. Repeat on another key switch

[oberkc]

To the others, I will add that is it possible that there was a hub not provided by Universal Devices.  It is possible that there was no hub at all but, given your description of the current situation, I find that unlikely.  Insteon (originally sold by smart labs) had a hub and the current Insteon company does, as well.  Also, there were companies that that make hubs or use computers to run software to control and manage Insteon devices.  Almost all hubs (except the actual "Insteon" hub) require the use of a "PLM" which plug into an outlet somewhere.  If you don't see a little white box plugged into an outlet, it is unlikely that you have a working hub somewhere.

Another feature of Insteon is that they can be used without actually powering a specific load.  Insteon switches can be configured to simply send a command to another Insteon device which, in turn, powers the load (a light, in most cases).  Since your post mentioned dimmers, I would tell you that these have three wires coming out of the switch housing: black, white, and red.  Black and white connect to line and neutral.  Red would connect to a load, but could be left unconnected.  

The meaning of the status lights varies by generation and I would have to look up the meaning from a user manual.  Having said that, I do not recall an Insteon dimmer switch without some sort of status light.  I would guess that constantly cycling LEDs is not a good sign.  Cycling once, from low to high, is a good sign.  Flashing red may indicate that it is failing to receive an expected response from another linked Insteon device.

Assuming you have some comfort with electrical systems, my suggestion would be to open a box containing a switch that otherwise appears to be operating normally (no continuously cycling LEDs) and see if anything is connected to the red wire.  If not, there is more investigation needed.

Another suggestion is to post your location.  It is possible someone lives nearby that could help.

It is possible that you could make this work again, but it will require expenditures of time and money.  It is up to you to decide if it interests you.  I suspect most Insteon systems are installed by homeowner hobbyists.  There are a couple around here that may still try to make money on installs and maintenance, but whether you could find such a person near you is unlikely, I believe.

 

[glsmith777]

You should also be aware that if there was a "hub", UD or otherwise - some of the Insteon switches may not be physically connected to anything.  You can check this by looking at each Insteon switch and see if the output red wire is connected.

By having the Insteon output not physically connected, the hub and its programs determines what is controlled by the switch.

My two cents

 

 

[Andy P]

Steve, the first thing I would suggest is don't panic. The insteon stuff is solid and with a little time invested you can get it working the way you want. If you don't want to invest the time, you could of course just replace everything with dumb switches and be done.

If you have a dimmer that does nothing, it means that there is another dimmer that is actually controlling the load. If you look at the instructions for those dimmers, you just have to reset them both then link them together. This works even without any hub. If you need more help with how to do that, plenty of people on this forum can help you if you just describe where you are at with each device.

I suggest you start with a single pair of devices that aren't working. Factory reset the one that controls the light. Factory reset the one that is supposed to be linked to it, and then use the instructions for how to link those switches together. Get that working and just repeat it for the rest of the house.

If you want more control and automation, invest in a hub. For this group, the EISY is the preferred option. but to be clear, you don't need a hub to get your stuff working again.

Best, Andy

[apostolakisl]

2476D are quite old, likely at least 10 years old.  The 2477D is the current model and has been for a long time.  Some of your switches may have simply failed.  The older switches had some issues with longevity and also just didn't work as well because they lacked radio communication.  The new switches use both power line communication (inserting data into the houses power wires) and simultaneously through radio communication.  These are called "dual band" and are quite reliable (the 2477d and 2477s).

If there is no led lit up at all, the switch is either not getting power, or has failed.  Possibly it just needs a reboot.  To reboot, use a butter knife to pull out the disconnect tab at the bottom of the switch (it can be stubborn).  This pull out tab will completely cut power to the switch's electronics.  You must properly pull it out to ensure you actually disconnected power.  When properly pulled out, it will stick out a couple millimeters and stay there all by itself.  Leave it out for about 10 seconds, then give it a tap so that it pops back in.  After a few seconds the switch will reboot.  If instead of just popping it back in, you push it in and hold it in (deeply) for about 15 seconds as the switch boots up, the switch will do a factory reset.  I would not do this right off since it may have had programming in it that is useful (assuming the previous owner had put useful links on it).  

I have never seen an insteon switch whose led just cycled up and down and up and down all on its own endlessly.  Sounds like some failure mode.  Possibly a reboot will fix it.

Switches that go up when you push the up button and down when you push the down button are behaving as expected from that point.  You need to figure out what the switch is connected to.  This may be nothing if it was used to control a scene and not directly connected to a load (light).  

Switches that blink red after using them would be a newer switch.  If it blinks red, that means it had been linked to another switch and the other switch didn't respond when you used it.  Or it could have been linked to a controller (like isy) and the controller didn't respond, possibly because it isn't there (the previous owner took it with them).

Insteon switches all have the ability to directly control a load (like a light) or directly control nothing but rather indirectly control things through data links to other switches (a scene).  If it directly controls a light, then by itself, it behaves the same as any "dumb" switch.  The cool and useful thing about Insteon is how it links up with other switches and controllers (like ISY).  When switches are linked together you have created a "scene".  Programming a simple scene can be done directly with the switch (download instructions from the internet).  But scenes can be made extremely fancy and complex if you employ the use of an ISY. 

If none of this interests you, then you should pull the switches and put "dumb" switches back in.  It is very close to a 100% chance that the house was wired for dumb switches.  If you are clueless on how these things are wired, you need to hire an electrician.  If you do it yourself, you will no doubt discover that many switches in the house were wired for 3 way or 4 way and thus you will need to figure out which wires go between which switch boxes.  A simple switch that directly controls one load with no other switches is pretty easy.  Insteon switches have 3 wires (plus ground).  A white (neutral), a black (hot), and red ( load to the fixture).  White and black must be connected for the switch to work.  The red might be capped if that switch does not directly control a fixture.