ingeborgdot Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 I had an 8-keypad Insteon device that I have as a timer for a bathroom fan. It just went bad the other day. It has been so long since I bought it that I can't remember what I would need to replace it. Can I just use a standard Insteon 8 keypad dimmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 If it was working as a timer, then you must have it programmed in ISY to do that. Keypads can't do that by themselves. And yes, you need a new KPL (They are called Keypad Links or KPL for short). Or you could open it up and replace the capacitors which is probably what went bad. Physically replace the old switch with the the new switch and add it to ISY (put ISY in linking mode and press the little tab button on the bottom of the kpl until it beeps, then click the pop-up window in ISY to go ahead and add it). Give it a name like "new kpl". Then, in ISY remove the old KPL from any folder you may have placed it in (right click/remove from folder), then transfer programming to new device (right click old kpl/replace with . . . select the new switch). Then if you like you can move it back to a folder in ISY. Doing the above will transfer all programs and links and everything from the old KPL to the new KPL. It will name the new kpl with the name of the old one and it will totally delete the old kpl from ISY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 Yes, but do I get the dimmer or just the on/off KPL? That is what my main question is? How can I tell if I have the dimmer or on/off? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 It is listed in the isy as 2484DWH8. Does the D stand for dimmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 If it is turning a fan on and off, you would not want the dimmer. Though it would probably work, you are best to use the relay version since fans are only supposed to function as on/off devices. If you have the ramp rate set to go super fast to 100% it will likely work, but there is probably some chance of damaging the motor or even having it catch fire. And even at 100%, the triac may still be affecting the current flow. I guess if you already have an 8 button kpl dimmer on it and it has worked for years, it would be at your discretion to just replace it with the same. And yes, I do believe the D in the name stands for dimmer. An S stands for switch. Looking at the insteon web page, they don't have any switches in stock. The 8 button dimmer and 6 button dimmer are actually the same device configured differently. They make a conversion kit. The switch is totally different, it has a relay in it that switches the load on and off, the dimmers run the power through a triac dimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_sievers Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Insteon used to actually have a specific 8-button keypad version of a countdown timer 2484D for uses such as a bath fan. The timer capabilities were built in to it but I haven’t seen one around for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) That's what it is. It is a 2484DWH8 KeypadLinc Countdown Timer v.00 After talking with Insteon, I don't know for sure what will work. I have an email to them, and am hoping my KeypadLinc Dimmer switch I have will work somehow. Does anyone on here have the knowledge to know for sure what will work or what I can do? I have the countdown timer in a scene controlling an ApplianceLinc outlet I have with the fantech bathroom fan plugged into that. Edited November 22, 2023 by ingeborgdot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Use the 2487s. Use the instructions in the manual to turn it into an 8 button. Swap the faceplate with your old timer keypad. Then write programs for your timers when any of the buttons are pressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 I have an 8 key model 2334-222 I purchased several years ago that is brand new as I keep some switches on hand. Will this work? Or, Can I fix the switch I have? If so, what do you think actually went bad in it? Are there any videos on the fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 What @lilyoyo1 said. Just write some programs in ISY. That is how all of my bathroom fans currently work. No need for a special switch that they haven't made in years and probably will never make again. I have it set to turn on for 5 minutes when you click the on paddle. If I click the on paddle a second time, it adds 5 more minutes. If do a "fast on" it just turns on and stays on. You can get fancy with it that way or just make a simple program that says If control device is switched on Then wait 5 minutes turn device off Or, use variables for something fancy If control device is switched on Then $fantimer += 5 (use a state variable) If $fantimer is not zero Then turn fan on Else turn fan off If $fantimer is not zero Then repeat every minute $fantimer -= 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said: I have an 8 key model 2334-222 I purchased several years ago that is brand new as I keep some switches on hand. Will this work? Or, Can I fix the switch I have? If so, what do you think actually went bad in it? Are there any videos on the fix? You could try replacing the capacitors. Most common part to fail in any Insteon device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, apostolakisl said: What @lilyoyo1 said. Just write some programs in ISY. That is how all of my bathroom fans currently work. No need for a special switch that they haven't made in years and probably will never make again. I have it set to turn on for 5 minutes when you click the on paddle. If I click the on paddle a second time, it adds 5 more minutes. If do a "fast on" it just turns on and stays on. You can get fancy with it that way or just make a simple program that says If control device is switched on Then wait 5 minutes turn device off Or, use variables for something fancy If control device is switched on Then $fantimer += 5 (use a state variable) If $fantimer is not zero Then turn fan on Else turn fan off If $fantimer is not zero Then repeat every minute $fantimer -= 1 Can I use my 2334-222 8 button dimmer switch I have sitting around? Brand new a year or 2 ago. Never used and waiting to come out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 Someone told me something like this. Create 7 scenes Example: 2 Min Put the "B" button in it as the Controller and the load as the responder 5 Min Same for C 10 Min Same for D 15 min Same for E 20 min Same for F 30 min Same for G 45 min Same for H When each button is pushed the light goes ON Create a program for each scene. First Program: If Control of A is On then wait 1 min then turn A Off B Button: If control of B button is On then wait 5 min then turn 5 min scene off C Button Keep the same pattern and just edit the button, time, and scene to match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, ingeborgdot said: Someone told me something like this. Create 7 scenes Example: 2 Min Put the "B" button in it as the Controller and the load as the responder 5 Min Same for C 10 Min Same for D 15 min Same for E 20 min Same for F 30 min Same for G 45 min Same for H When each button is pushed the light goes ON Create a program for each scene. First Program: If Control of A is On then wait 1 min then turn A Off B Button: If control of B button is On then wait 5 min then turn 5 min scene off C Button Keep the same pattern and just edit the button, time, and scene to match Yes, that will work fine. Kind of seems like more options than you would really ever need. Without labeling the buttons you will probably forget how many minutes each button does. Personally, I did the simple on/off switch with the 5 minute additions. Rarely use anything more than the single click for 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Just replaced the 250v 6.8uF capacitor in one of my very old and long discontinued synchrolincs . . . and it works again! It has been sitting on my workbench for months waiting for me to get around to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 I have the buttons that tell the minutes, so that would solve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 On 11/23/2023 at 8:02 AM, apostolakisl said: What @lilyoyo1 said. Just write some programs in ISY. That is how all of my bathroom fans currently work. No need for a special switch that they haven't made in years and probably will never make again. I have it set to turn on for 5 minutes when you click the on paddle. If I click the on paddle a second time, it adds 5 more minutes. If do a "fast on" it just turns on and stays on. You can get fancy with it that way or just make a simple program that says If control device is switched on Then wait 5 minutes turn device off Or, use variables for something fancy If control device is switched on Then $fantimer += 5 (use a state variable) If $fantimer is not zero Then turn fan on Else turn fan off If $fantimer is not zero Then repeat every minute $fantimer -= 1 I have gotten to the point of Bathroom fan is switched on Wait 2 minutes. Where do I go to get it to say turn off device? I do the if for getting it to fan on, then for the time of 2 min, what do I do next for getting it to shut off after 2 min? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 hour ago, ingeborgdot said: I have gotten to the point of Bathroom fan is switched on Wait 2 minutes. Where do I go to get it to say turn off device? I do the if for getting it to fan on, then for the time of 2 min, what do I do next for getting it to shut off after 2 min? Thanks. If fan switch is control switched on Then wait 2 minutes set fan switch off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) I'm so far behind with programming. How do I get to set fan switch off? I'll look. I have If 'Bathroom Fan' is switched on Then wait 2 minutes Edited November 27, 2023 by ingeborgdot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddy Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 31 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said: How do I get to set fan switch off? I'll look. Change to "Action" and then "Your Devices" Press "Add to 'Then'" and it will show up: Then Set 'Exhaust' Off If you're "behind" on programming please take the time to review the ISY Cookbook or the wiki areas about setting up programs. The ISY Cookbook can be found in the links of the wiki: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php NOTE: The cookbook was written on a prior version of ISY firmware and some information might be outdated, but the overall general ideas remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 I went through that part of your devices. How did I miss it? I thought something must have changed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 Okay, I went in and did that, but now when I go to your devices it gives me the option of query, backlight, and write changes. What the heck am I doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) I figured it out. Duh. I'm not actually turning off the button, I should be turning off the appliancelinc the fan is plugged into. When I put in the outlet it is turning off, it gives me the option to turn it off. I could do it for the button on A, but not for the other buttons since they are just in scenes. I still need to figure out how to program the off button to turn any of the other buttons off if I want to. This is how the old timer was. I am keeping the off button. I guess I could program it to be a 3 hour timer, but I would rather have it turn all the other buttons off. Edited November 27, 2023 by ingeborgdot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeborgdot Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 So, if I want the off button to turn everything off if it is on should it be like this? If Bathroom fan is switched on or Bathroom fan B is switched on or Bathroom fan C is switched on etc. Then Set Bath Fan Outlet Off Does that look right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said: I figured it out. Duh. I'm not actually turning off the button, I should be turning off the appliancelinc the fan is plugged into. When I put in the outlet it is turning off, it gives me the option to turn it off. I could do it for the button on A, but not for the other buttons since they are just in scenes. I still need to figure out how to program the off button to turn any of the other buttons off if I want to. This is how the old timer was. I am keeping the off button. I guess I could program it to be a 3 hour timer, but I would rather have it turn all the other buttons off. On the KPL devices it gets a little screwy because the other 7 buttons are not treated as devices. You have to create a scene for each button even if it is the only thing in the scene to use a program to turn it on/off. If you are going to use a program to control the fan timing and not the other buttons on the KPL, I would switch over to a swtichlinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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