Help on program validating 2450 is responding

[paulbates]

I have 2 2450 / iolincs monitoring my sump pump. The programs to do the reporting of the sump pump activity have been working as expected for an over a month. I'm going back and writing alert programs that verify links in the chain like: are the 2450s alive? My concern is that both 2450 are sensor only, the only communication is initiated from contact closure at the sump pump, not the eisy... so If I don't hear back, could the 2450 failed?

This is not a case of a program not working, more about how to approach it. I did go back and review posts from the past, and the 994i manual. I didn't find program snippets that show the right way to do it.

Here's how I approached it for one of them: The logic is, if 3 hours or more go by without on or off from the 2450, and the 2450 is not responding, send me a notification.

Sump Runtime 2450 Error - [ID 0035][Parent 0033]

If
        $Sump_Pump_Hours_Since_Last_Run >= 3
    And 'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Pump Power - Sensor' Responding is False
 
Then
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Notifications / Service Pushover warnmsg' Send Sys Custom With Params Priority=Normal Sound=Pushover (default) Retry=30 Expire=60 Content 26 Notification ID (ID=26)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

I'm assuming the Query in the If is sending a Insteon messages to the 2450, and the 5 second wait is to let that communication work itself out. 

Is that how this is supposed to work? if not, suggestions are appreciated

Edited January 14 by paulbates

[IndyMike]

2 hours ago, paulbates said:

 

If
        $Sump_Pump_Hours_Since_Last_Run >= 3
    And 'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Pump Power - Sensor' Responding is False
 
I'm assuming the Query in the If is sending a Insteon messages to the 2450, and the 5 second wait is to let that communication work itself out. 

Is that how this is supposed to work? if not, suggestions are appreciated

If I understand correctly, you are worried about "missing" a contact closure on the 2450 OR having it go offline.

I don't see a device query anywhere.  Is that contained in another program that runs at XX interval?

[paulbates]

Thanks Mike

No, not worried about missing. I looked at that. I added the equivalent parts for a signalinc to my panel. The log and event viewer show it hitting every time... On and offs line up completely day after day

I'm more concerned that the 2450 stops working and I won't know . The e conversation is initiated by the 2450, not the eisy

The query part...I don't know / forgot what to do. What steps are needed to do that. How do I structure the program?

[gzahar]

I have 2 2450 / iolincs monitoring my sump pump. The programs to do the reporting of the sump pump activity have been working as expected for an over a month. I'm going back and writing alert programs that verify links in the chain like: are the 2450s alive? My concern is that both 2450 are sensor only, the only communication is initiated from contact closure at the sump pump, not the eisy... so If I don't hear back, could the 2450 failed?
This is not a case of a program not working, more about how to approach it. I did go back and review posts from the past, and the 994i manual. I didn't find program snippets that show the right way to do it.
Here's how I approached it for one of them: The logic is, if 3 hours or more go by without on or off from the 2450, and the 2450 is not responding, send me a notification.
Sump Runtime 2450 Error - [iD 0035][Parent 0033]
If
        $Sump_Pump_Hours_Since_Last_Run >= 3
    And 'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Pump Power - Sensor' Responding is False
 
Then
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Notifications / Service Pushover warnmsg' Send Sys Custom With Params Priority=Normal Sound=Pushover (default) Retry=30 Expire=60 Content 26 Notification ID (ID=26)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 
I'm assuming the Query in the If is sending a Insteon messages to the 2450, and the 5 second wait is to let that communication work itself out. 
Is that how this is supposed to work? if not, suggestions are appreciated

To my understanding, the ‘responding’ statement does not generate a query. You need to do that in another program in a loop of your decision. Keep the ‘responding’ program, but remove any other criteria (>= 3) and no need for a wait. I believe the responding state will be set to false anytime the device fails to reply to any command; on, off, query, etc. I don’t know what it is, but there should be a timeout built in to the protocol or IoX firmware that declares how long after no response from a command it waits before declaring a device as not responding. I also assume that as soon as the device replies to a later command it is declared responding again.

[IndyMike]

1 hour ago, paulbates said:

I'm more concerned that the 2450 stops working and I won't know . The e conversation is initiated by the 2450, not the eisy

The query part...I don't know / forgot what to do. What steps are needed to do that. How do I structure the program?

This is how I query my All-On detector.  Make sure you have "run at startup" selected for the program

All on Poll - [ID 0023][Parent 000A][Run At Startup]

If
        Time is Last Run Time for 'All on Poll' +  5 minutes
 
Then
        Set 'All On Detect' Query
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

[paulbates]

I had an idea to run a program 4 times a day, every 6 hours, .. but ideally when it should be when it appears there may be a problem. When I don't hear from the 2450 after 3 hours, I want to make sure Insteon isn't the problem.

Sump Runtime 2450 Error 1 - [ID 0035][Parent 0033]

If
        $Sump_Pump_Hours_Since_Last_Run >= 3
 
Then
        Set 'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Pump Power - Sensor' Query
        Wait  5 seconds
        Run Program 'Sump Runtime 2450 Error 2' (If)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Not sure if the above program needs to call this one, not sure on the conditions for "Responding" to trigger

Sump Runtime 2450 Error 2 - [ID 000D][Parent 0033]

If
        'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Pump Power - Sensor' Responding is False
 
Then
        Set 'Notifications / Service Pushover warnmsg' Send Sys Custom With Params Priority=Normal Sound=Pushover (default) Retry=30 Expire=60 Content 26 Notification ID (ID=26)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

I'll let this run, and go down and unplug the 2450 tomorrow and see it works

[IndyMike]

@paulbates,

I would think your "If 'Sump Pump Monitor..." program would be triggered anytime there is a state change in the 2450 (including an Error). 

Nonetheless, specifically calling the "Sump Runtime program..." from you first program is Belt and Suspenders.  I can't see any downsides.

I am happy to see you building error handling around the 2450.  They are not the most reliable devices and are susceptible to All-on/All-off communication.  It looks like you are using the 2450 for notifications NOT control.  I would not trust a 2450 to control things where damage could result.

Let us know how it works.

[paulbates]

6 hours ago, IndyMike said:

I would think your "If 'Sump Pump Monitor..." program would be triggered anytime there is a state change in the 2450 (including an Error). 

Nonetheless, specifically calling the "Sump Runtime program..." from you first program is Belt and Suspenders.  I can't see any downsides.

I am happy to see you building error handling around the 2450.  They are not the most reliable devices and are susceptible to All-on/All-off communication.  It looks like you are using the 2450 for notifications NOT control.  I would not trust a 2450 to control things where damage could result.

Let us know how it works.

Thanks @IndyMikeand @gzahar

It triggers any time after the query fails. The wait and program call above are redundant and I get a second notification, I took those out

The summary, what I needed to know:

1. Come up with a program to include the query statements in the "then". It could be based on a couple times of day, or some other logic like I did
    
2. Create a separate service handling programs that are not called or referred to by the first program. To your points, they trigger when the ISY doesn't hear back.

The first program looks like this. My recollection is that iox doesn't pause between back-to-back Insteon commands, so the "wait". If I haven't heard from the sump pump power sensor for X hours, query both iolincs.

Sump Pump 2450 Error Check - 1 - [ID 0035][Parent 0033]

If
        $Sump_Pump_Hours_Since_Last_Run >= 5
 
Then
        Set 'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Pump Power - Sensor' Query
        Wait  4 seconds
        Set 'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Depth Alarm-Sensor' Query
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

These two programs service the query errors, initiated by above. They send me notifications when the query fails

Sump Pump 2450 Depth Error - 2 - [ID 000D][Parent 0033]

If
        'Sump Pump Monitor / Sump Depth Alarm-Sensor' Responding is False
 
Then
        Set 'Notifications / Service Pushover alerts' Send Sys Custom With Params Sound=Siren Retry=30 Expire=60 Content 25 Notification ID (ID=25)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

I tested  it by pulling the 2450 out of the wall and running the program. 

Thanks for the thoughts, Mike. I had pretty good luck with 2450s at my last house over 12 years; garage door, rain sensor and attic fan louvre control. I did look seriously at YoLink as you suggested and recently got it for temp/humid sensors. It's possible these get switched.

I'm having to learn YoLink's way of thinking, and more successful with it the more I do. Definitely very impressed and looking at expanding sensors using it.  It seems to be designed for DIY and not worried about MYq type changes affecting it.

 

 

 

 

 

[IndyMike]

1 hour ago, paulbates said:

 I did look seriously at YoLink as you suggested and recently got it for temp/humid sensors. It's possible these get switched.

I'm having to learn YoLink's way of thinking, and more successful with it the more I do. Definitely very impressed and looking at expanding sensors using it.  It seems to be designed for DIY and not worried about MYq type changes affecting it.

Thanks for the input on the YoLink temp/humidity sensors.  I looked at them for bathroom humidity and refrigerator monitoring.  Would up going with Zigbee Aqara sensors since I already had the dongle on Home Assistant.

I do have a friend who is looking at door sensors for his outbuilding 400 feet away from his house.  We are looking hard at the YoLink.

I assume that you are using their hub - correct?

[paulbates]

3 minutes ago, IndyMike said:

I assume that you are using their hub - correct?

Yes and @Panda88's plugin. The hub 3 was rumored to be local only, which ended up to not be true, but in today's internet world, not an issue for me. Hub 3 will support a backup mobile network when it comes out. I chose the hub 2 which can also do TTS. 

I just installed two 8003 temp/humidity sensors for i3 paddle fan control in our master bath and second floor laundry room. I had to install them and use the app to see the temp and humidity graphs and watch behavior.  

The learning curve was setting the "alarm" function for temp and humidity with the yolink app. It reports more frequently when the target temp is at or past the alarm boundary.. it reports more frequently in alarm state, and saves battery with fewer updates when not. But more frequent updates gives finer control of sending the "off" to the fan. Change of seasons is yet to be proven, but I can work that out with iox programs.