Updating scene controllers without creating programs

[flemingmike]

ill try expain one example and hopefully there is a way to do this without creating a program for every scene i have

Device 1 - dimmer - controller/responder

Device 2 - 6 button kp letter b - controller/responder

Scene 6 - includes device 1 and 2 

If i use an app to turn on scene 6, device 1 and device 2 turn on

If i use an app to turn on device 1 (lets say i dim it to 50%) device 2 does not turn on so therefore when im at the other end of the room i cannot turn off device 1 by pressing letter b on device 2.

workaround: create a program (if device 1 is not off then turn on device 2, else turn off device 2) - not ideal when i have 100+ scenes.

is there a way to create a way that if any controller in a scene isnt off then turn on all controllers?

[Techman]

Not sure what you're referring to when you say "if I use an app", what app?

The on levels and ramp rates for each device in a scene need to be set in the scene.

[flemingmike]

lets say im using the ud mobile app and i set device 1 to 50% dim, device 2 doesnt turn on to reflect that the device 1 is on.  if i use device 1 locally to dim to 50% device 2 turns on

[tazman]

Scenes only work with local control for devices. You should be controlling the scene when controlling  remotely if you want everything to stay in sync.

[Techman]

@flemingmike

in UD Mobile, at the bottom of the Device tree are the scenes. By turning the scene on or off all the devices in that scene will respond accordingly.

[flemingmike]

Yes, I see that part. problem is that the scene turns on the devices to the on levels set in the scene.  If i want to use the dimmer in the app, the other controllers from the scene dont turn on.  and you cant dim a scene

[Javi]

10 minutes ago, flemingmike said:

Yes, I see that part. problem is that the scene turns on the devices to the on levels set in the scene.  If i want to use the dimmer in the app, the other controllers from the scene dont turn on.  and you cant dim a scene

In UDM all Scenes as dimmers and calculates an estimated status.   Keypad buttons should have calculation ignored for this to work correctly. See: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Scene_Estimated_Status

If the scene is added to favorites you can change the Favorite Type to "Slider" to show as a dimmer on the Favorites Tab.

[flemingmike]

Ok, amazing, this pointed me in right direction.

in my control app - i use slider to dim scene which activates all devices

then in the feedback from the eisy, since it doesnt show the status of a scene,  i show the status of the device that controls the load so now i can control and see status of my lighting.  thanks for the help everyone.

Edit: This isnt correct information

Edited January 19 by flemingmike
wrong information

[flemingmike]

in a future version of the eisy in the http://192.168.*.1:8080/rest/nodes/ feedback add in status of the scene it would save a programming step.

[flemingmike]

Nevermind, when i dim the scene it just turns the scene on or off, doesnt apply percentage level.  back to the drawing board.

[Javi]

Scenes really have no status, they are static setpoints.  So adding to firmware may work in some situations but not all.

Also, upon rethinking this, I don't think UDM's Scene Dim function works for KPL buttons when not set to 0% or 100%.

There is an Insteon Limitation with KPL Buttons. Only a Scene can turn on a KPL Button, not a Direct Command.  In order for UDM to convert this static scene into a dimmer UDM sends commands to each device independently, which will not work for the KPL buttons.  However if the UDM Scene Percentage is 0% or 100% then the scene "OFF" or "ON" command is sent.

So to show status with KPL Buttons a State Variable can be used, this way programs are not looking at dimmer/button status values.   Create a variable, then in UDM add the variable to Favorites, then change Favorite Type to Slider.  Create a new Scene for each KPL button where you want status where the Button is the only member as a Responder.  Finally create a program which observes the variable, If value > 0.  In then set all dimmers to the variable value and turn on the Scenes which contain the the single KPL buttons.   In Eles turn off the scene containing all devices.

Note that this may require UDM gets variable status on Startup.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Program_And_Variable_Settings

[Javi]

1 minute ago, flemingmike said:

Nevermind, when i dim the scene it just turns the scene on or off, doesnt apply percentage level.  back to the drawing board.

This is not the behavior I see, maybe there is something else triggering OFF.   The off Command is only sent to the Scene for 0%.

[flemingmike]

so ive done this in the past by

1 - create scene with kpl button as responder named device 1 status update

2 - create program - if device 1 is not off then turn on scene "device 1 status update" else turn off scene "device 1 status update"

my issue im trying to solve is 1 have about 50 of these scenes at this jobsite and im hoping not to make 50 programs and additional scenes

[flemingmike]

2 minutes ago, Javi said:

This is not the behavior I see, maybe there is something else triggering OFF.   The off Command is only sent to the Scene for 0%.

correct, if i send rest/nodes/38898/cmd/DON/0 the scene turns off.  if i send anything greater than 0 it turns scene on but turns on to 100% and not the value of the number

[flemingmike]

is it possible in the future to say - if any controller in a scene is turned on then all controllers in that scene are turned on?  or is this a limitation to insteon and not the eisy.  ive seen other hardware that works this way

[Javi]

1 minute ago, flemingmike said:

correct, if i send rest/nodes/38898/cmd/DON/0 the scene turns off.  if i send anything greater than 0 it turns scene on but turns on to 100% and not the value of the number

Did you exclude the KPLs from Calculation?   The KPL Buttons (not load) only have 0% and 100% nothing in between.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Scene_Estimated_Status

If that does not work, you likely have interference from something else such as a program.

[flemingmike]

Just now, Javi said:

Did you exclude the KPLs from Calculation?   The KPL Buttons (not load) only have 0% and 100% nothing in between.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Scene_Estimated_Status

If that does not work, you likely have interference from something else such as a program.

this doesnt exactly solve the problem though as if i send a 50% command of a scene it still turns the scene on to 100%

ive tried removing the kpl from the scene and i still cannot dim a scene, only dim a device

/rest/nodes/SCENEID/cmd/DON/50 - this still turns on my light to 100%

[Javi]

8 minutes ago, flemingmike said:

is it possible in the future to say - if any controller in a scene is turned on then all controllers in that scene are turned on?  or is this a limitation to insteon and not the eisy.  ive seen other hardware that works this way

It is an insteon limitation with KPL Buttons, which can only be controlled by a scene.

UDM attempts to do this automatically with all devices in the Scene when using the Dim function. However UDM cannot control the KPL Buttons directly without switching the entire Scene.  If UDM were to turn on the entire scene it would go to on level not the level set by the UDM dimmer.

So without using programs and/or variables KPL buttons can not be controlled using UDM's Scene Dim function.  

Another option would be to use a Switch which will turn the Scene ON or OFF with respect to OnLevel.

[Javi]

1 minute ago, flemingmike said:

this doesnt exactly solve the problem though as if i send a 50% command of a scene it still turns the scene on to 100%

ive tried removing the kpl from the scene and i still cannot dim a scene, only dim a device

/rest/nodes/SCENEID/cmd/DON/50 - this still turns on my light to 100%

This is only from UDM,  Scenes do not support % commands

[flemingmike]

5 minutes ago, Javi said:

This is only from UDM,  Scenes do not support % commands

thanks, ill just build programs with variables.  appreciate your time.