IoX and i3 Insteon

[theitprofessor]

Has anyone tried the new Insteon i3 devices with IoX 5.8 running on Eisy?  I have and here's what I've run into so far.

1.  There doesn't seem to be an option for doing any firmware updates.

2.  I can't get the Outlet to join the network.  I can find it but it errors out with "Cannot determine Insteon Device Type.

3.  I have a Paddle and Keypad and I can't get a dimmable LED bulb to dim.  Only on and off.  And yes the options are set to dimmer.

Anyone run into these issues?  Can't find anything on a search.  I can open up a support ticket but I wanted to see if this was something anyone else has experienced.

[tpolito]

I know you said the option is set to dimmer.  Did you do it manually at the switch?  Or tried to set it as dimmer through the UD Mobile app?  I believe it has to be done manually at the switch itself.  At least that is the only thing I could get to work.

[theitprofessor]

Thanks for giving me some ideas what to look for...

# 3 Dimming

I was looking at the mode via the AC.  Interesting the difference between AC and UDM.  So basically when you bring an i3 Keypad or Paddle (Switch) you get an extra object they call Flags which are basically all the Options for the device.  A Keypad has 9 and a Paddle has 7.  All of these Options are binary (only 2).  In the AC the Mode option is either "Dimmer" or "Relay" all of the other options are "On" or "Off".  In UDM all of the options are either "True" or "False" including Mode.  My guess is UDI just hasn't got to labeling in UDM yet.  I was able to get the dimmer to function but not the same way you did.  I basically set Mode to "Relay" in the AC, and wrote changes.  Then I changed it back to "Dimmer" and wrote changes.  After doing this it started to work properly.  The Mode was set to Dimmer when I first added it but apparently what's displayed in the AC is not accurate.  So by changing it a couple times seems to have fixed it.

# 2 Outlet

I was able to get the Outlet to join but not the normal way I add devices.  I normally use the AC, go to New Insteon Device, add the address and a name and that's all that's needed.  But that just kept erroring out.  So I put the Outlet in pairing mode with the set button, and then followed my same old procedure and that worked.  You need to manually take to device out of pairing mode after it's been successfully added to the system.  One thing I noticed differently in the AC is, normally Scenes and Controller only devices are in Blue and all other devices like legacy Outlets are in Pink/Red.  With this i3 Outlet it came in as Blue.

# 1 Firmware Updates

Still no way I can see to do a firmware update.

Additional Note:

Communication to these new devices is very slow compared to all my older Insteon devices.  I see a lot of system busy and long noticeable delays in the AC and with the actual condition on the devices. 

Edited February 4 by theitprofessor

[jec6613]

@theitprofessor I wonder if just doing a device restore would you get to the same place for the dimmer, as IoX would re-write every setting to match what's in the database.

[theitprofessor]

I assume the answer to your question is yes but I won't know for sure until I try it.  Later I will remove, do a factory reset on the paddle and keypad and try to add again, observe the behavior and post back here.

[paulbates]

Insteon users cannot firmware update devices. What you're shipped is what you get.

I use i3 paddles and an outlet and they all work as expected.

[paulbates]

Having said that, the function set for Insteon devices is focused, specific. I've been buying them since I think 2006 and never needed a firmware upgrade.

[apnar]

Having said that, the function set for Insteon devices is focused, specific. I've been buying them since I think 2006 and never needed a firmware upgrade.

I’d love to be able to firmware update all my devices to ignore “all-on”. There are also a couple bugs with how KPLs turn off scene buttons when pressed that I have to work around with programs.

I’d even pay money to buy an Insteon specific flasher and manually flash all my devices by hand. I suspect it’s possible but likely a customer service nightmare.

[theitprofessor]

One of the features of the i3 series is the devices are supposed to have field firmware upgrade capabilities.  In fact, I think if your hub is an Insteon hub I guess it does this already.  Of course, the Insteon devices prior to i3 can’t.  I understand that.  I’ve had them for 10 years myself.  I was wondering if UDI was going to build this into IoX or will we have to have an Insteon hub just for firmware upgrades.  That’s really a Mickey Mouse way of doing it but I’d take that over nothing at all.  There must be an easier way.

[jec6613]

@theitprofessor Just because they have field upgradeable firmware doesn't mean it will be frequent, or that it exists at all right now.  in Z-Wave land, a few devices get a few firmware updates, but it's still fairly rare except for right after new chipset releases.

Given the new company direction, if there were any updates I think we'd have heard of them by now in their periodic updates - and if they do occur, I hope UD has the time to add in that capability as well.

If it does require a hub and it's an important update, I'll probably pick one up, join the devices to it for a firmware update, then just hit restore device in the AC once the firmware update is done.

[theitprofessor]

Oh I totally understand that but one of the first things I do when I put something new in is to make sure I’m on the latest version.  So I started looking around to see how to find out what the latest version available is and how I would go about upgrading it if I wasn’t.  Can’t find either one so I asked.  Especially when I’m seeing issues.  That’s where I start.  I’m seeing huge communication delays with the i3 devices I don’t see with my non i3 devices.

[sjenkins]

I have a few of these i3's and haven't noticed the timing issues ; are what you have noticed from the switch to other devices, switch to isy program, or program to switch ?  or all.

Just asking so I can set up an experiment on mine.

Like many on this channel I have a mixed environment of old and new Insteons.  MUCH prefer them to z-wave in about every way.

Also, I have had the old Insteon hub (and trashed it) ; but would buy another if that was the only way to do updates, they are not that expensive.  Knowing it is an advertised feature, Has ANYONE seen if there has been an Insteon update on ANY device since the new i3's came out?

[theitprofessor]

The comm delay I see with the i3 is from my Eisy to the device.  Like simply turning something on or off.  So basically it’s from my PLM to the i3.  I even see a “system busy” sometimes from the AC.  Which could just be me clicking the button too many times.  I’m going try some more testing to see if I can pin down what may be causing these the delays.  The weird part is it doesn’t happening to any of my non i3 devices, and I have a lot.

[theitprofessor]

So disregard any of these issues I was asking about.  It turns out it had more to do with a not perfect migration to Eisy and change out of the PLM.  Most things worked OK but I had a gremlin or two in my network.  By removing everything Insteon, resetting each Insteon device to factory default including the PLM, and putting it all back in, that resolved all of my anomalies.  It was a lot of work (>300 Insteon & >100 Scenes) but worth it.  Also, for the i3 Paddle and Keypad dimmer issues one of them has it's mode default to Dimmer and the other to Relay.  You need to do a query on the device from the AC to see what it's actually set to and then you can write a change to the mode if necessary.  You cannot trust what the setting/options say without a query first.  Works flawlessly every time.