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2475D Inlinelinc Dimmer - scene issues


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1 hour ago, EJones01 said:

This dimmer works fine from other switches, from the Admin Console and from Alexa commands. Never not works from those, but from all my scenes it only works 1 in 5 or worse. What could be causing this?

I'd verify that your scenes are set up correctly. More detailed information about your setup would help.

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Yes, Scenes are setup correctly. I've been using ISY and Policy for many years, many scenes, programs and devices. Its just this one. If it was bad coms I would have thought I would see that when controlling it by other means, its just all scenes its in (6).

Edited by EJones01
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8 hours ago, EJones01 said:

This dimmer works fine from other switches, from the Admin Console and from Alexa commands. Never not works from those, but from all my scenes it only works 1 in 5 or worse. What could be causing this?

Other switches, and the Admin Console (not sure about Alexa) communicate via Insteon Direct commands.  These commands interrogate the target device (your Inlinelinc) to determine if it received and properly acted on the command.  The PLM and "other switches" will also re-try sending the command if it does not get the correct response.  

Scenes do not confirm the target response, nor do they re-try commands.  They are open loop "send only" and assume that the target has responded correctly.

Your inlinelinc likely has marginal communication with the PLM.  The 2475D is dual band, but inlinelincs tend to be installed in areas where they may not have good RF communication.  Powerline communication may be affected by the load or other devices on the same circuit. 

You can try to improve RF comms by installing range extenders or Lamplincs.  You can try improving powerline comms by inspecting/filtering signal absorbing devices or again installing powerline devices on the same circuit to repeat the Insteon signal.  

If you wish to assess the quality of you communication, try running a link table scan with your event viewer on level 3 (right click on the device, select "Diagnostics/Show Device Link Table".  

A link table read will generate a lot of communication with the device.  With each device acknowledge, the ISY will display the Max Hops and Hops Left.  Having them equal is perfect.  The larger the disparity, the worst the communication.  

I'm betting that your Hops Remaining on the 2475D will show it's having problems.  You can also compare with other devices for a relative quality factor.

If you have a question on the event viewer information, post yours and we'll have a look.

Link table scan for a good communication: dual band KPL 2 floors up at other end of my house:

Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:40 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 58 D0 2B 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:40 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 58.D0.2B 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2 06        (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:41 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 58.D0.2B 53.BC.3A 2F 2F 00           (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:41 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 58.D0.2B-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:41 AM : [INST-ERX    ] 02 51 58 D0 2B 53 BC 3A 15 2F 00 00 01 0F FF 20 A2 49 53 BC 3A FF 1F 02 4E 
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:41 AM : [Ext-Direct  ] 58.D0.2B-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:41 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 58 D0 2B 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:41 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 58.D0.2B 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 06        (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:42 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 58.D0.2B 53.BC.3A 2F 2F 00           (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:45:42 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 58.D0.2B-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

 

Link table scan for a problem 2477S in my basement (20' from the PLM).  Device is powered by a GFCI circuit and includes a refrigerator with inverter cooling.  I have a LampLinc on this circuit to "improve" communication to the 2477s.  Communication below is good.    

Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:48 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 73 18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:48 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 20.73.18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2 06        (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:49 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 20.73.18 53.BC.3A 2B 2F 00           (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:49 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 20.73.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:49 AM : [INST-ERX    ] 02 51 20 73 18 53 BC 3A 11 2F 00 00 01 0F FF 00 AA 00 39 01 76 FF 1C 01 4C 
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:49 AM : [Ext-Direct  ] 20.73.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:49 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 73 18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:49 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 20.73.18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 06        (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:50 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 20.73.18 53.BC.3A 2B 2F 00           (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 05:59:50 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 20.73.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

2477S with no helper installed (red items are ISY re-tries). Without the LampLinc "helper" installed communication exhibits multiple ISY re-tries after time outs.

Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:33 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 73 18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:33 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 20.73.18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2 06        (00)

Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:42 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 73 18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:42 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 20.73.18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C2 06        (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:44 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 20.73.18 53.BC.3A 2B 2F 00           (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:44 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 20.73.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:44 AM : [INST-ERX    ] 02 51 20 73 18 53 BC 3A 11 2F 00 00 01 0F FF 00 AA 00 39 01 76 FF 1C 01 4C 
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:44 AM : [Ext-Direct  ] 20.73.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:44 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 73 18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:44 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 20.73.18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 06        (00)

Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:53 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 73 18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA
Fri 09/20/2024 06:07:53 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 20.73.18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 06        (00)

Fri 09/20/2024 06:08:02 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 73 18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA
Fri 09/20/2024 06:08:02 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 20.73.18 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 06        (00)
Fri 09/20/2024 06:08:05 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 20.73.18 53.BC.3A 2B 2F 00 

Fri 09/20/2024 06:08:05 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 20.73.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2        

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@IndyMike Firstly, thanks for the best/most helpful reply I've ever got on this forum! That all makes sense. The unit is in the same room as the Polisy but its an extractor fan so does have some metal around it, although theres a good amount of plastic too. Originally they was a single channel main unit and I updated it to dual with RF. This didn't make any difference so I suspect with your info that both the mains and RF are having trouble communicating. Heres my logs:

Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:20 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 28 0F
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:20 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:25 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_118] [LUMIN] [153] uom=36 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:25 AM : [ZY031_118       ]    LUMIN 153 (uom=36 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:25 AM : [D2D-CMP 0002] STS [ZY031_118] LUMIN op=2 Event(val=153 uom=36 prec=0) < Condition(val=1 uom=36 prec=0) --> false
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:29 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 28 0F
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:29 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:31 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 17.7A.03 52.18.66 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:31 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 17.7A.03-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:31 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 2B F8
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:31 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 2B F8 15          PEEK   (F8)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:36 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_118] [LUMIN] [154] uom=36 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:36 AM : [ZY031_118       ]    LUMIN 154 (uom=36 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:36 AM : [D2D-CMP 0002] STS [ZY031_118] LUMIN op=2 Event(val=154 uom=36 prec=0) < Condition(val=1 uom=36 prec=0) --> false
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:36 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 28 0F
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:36 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:36 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 17.7A.03 52.18.66 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:37 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 17.7A.03-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:37 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 2B F8
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:37 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 2B F8 06          PEEK   (F8)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:39 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 17.7A.03 52.18.66 2B 2B A2    PEEK   (A2)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:39 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 17.7A.03-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:39 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 28 0F
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:39 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 28 0F 15          SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:44 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 28 0F
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:44 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 17.7A.03 52.18.66 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 17.7A.03-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 2B F9
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 2B F9 15          PEEK   (F9)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/1/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/2/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/4/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/5/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/6/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/7/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/8/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/10/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:48 AM : Create REST U7 [/rest/profiles/ns/0/connection]
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:52 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 28 0F
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:53 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:56 AM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 17.7A.03 52.18.66 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:56 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 17.7A.03-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:56 AM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 17 7A 03 0F 2B F9
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:56 AM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 17.7A.03 0F 2B F9 15          PEEK   (F9)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:56 AM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:58 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_118] [LUMIN] [152] uom=36 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:58 AM : [ZY031_118       ]    LUMIN 152 (uom=36 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:20:58 AM : [D2D-CMP 0002] STS [ZY031_118] LUMIN op=2 Event(val=152 uom=36 prec=0) < Condition(val=1 uom=36 prec=0) --> false
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_1] [ALARM] [8] uom=25 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [ZY031_1         ]    ALARM   8 (uom=25 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_155] [ST] [100] uom=78 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [ZY031_155       ]       ST 100 (uom=78 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [D2D-CMP 0002] STS [ZY031_155] ST op=1 Event(val=100 uom=78 prec=0) is Condition(val=100 uom=78 prec=0) --> true
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_155] [DON] [100] uom=78 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [ZY031_155       ]      DON 100 (uom=78 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:01 AM : [ZWAVE-CTL-EVENT ] Basic Set from 31.0 unmapped (ignored)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_1] [ALARM] [0] uom=25 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [ZY031_1         ]    ALARM   0 (uom=25 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_155] [ST] [0] uom=78 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [ZY031_155       ]       ST   0 (uom=78 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [D2D-CMP 0002] STS [ZY031_155] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=78 prec=0) is Condition(val=100 uom=78 prec=0) --> false
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [D2D EVENT       ] Event [ZY031_155] [DOF] [0] uom=78 prec=0
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [ZY031_155       ]      DOF   0 (uom=78 prec=0)
Fri 09/20/2024 08:21:03 AM : [ZWAVE-CTL-EVENT ] Basic Set from 31.0 unmapped (ignored)
 

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@EJones01, your communication during the link table read looks rather good.  Takeaways:

  • When your InLineLinc communicates back to the PLM, it is responding with 2 of 3 hops remaining.  That's rather good.  When the device hears the PLM, it responds well.
  • During a link table read the PLM requests that the device respond with an acknowledge.   The is the [INST-SRX] entry in the event viewer. If none is received, the PLM will re-try the communication to the device up to 5x.  This is invisible to the ISY and event viewer.  In other words, we can't tell how good the signal level is from the PLM to your device (it will be different than the reverse direction).  The PLM may be re-trying commands multiple times.
  • If the PLM re-tries 5x and doesn't receive an acknowledge, a device timeout occurs.  For certain commands (query, link table read), the ISY will re-try the command up to 2x (3 total).  These are the RED highlighted entries I showed above.  You are not seeing these - that's a good thing.
  • A scene command does not do any of the above checking.  If you have marginal signal level from the PLM to the device, it's entirely possible it will not hear the scene command.  The ISY will assume that it did.

Questions:

  • "Extractor fan" sounds industrial.  Is this a dust collector or other large motor driven device?
  • Does your scene fail only when the load is on or off - trying to determine is the load could be absorbing signal.

Try to determine what else is on this circuit.  You may have devices that are absorbing the Insteon signal.  Unplug devices to see if the scene performance improves.  Remember that you are looking for better communication from the PLM to the device.  You can use the scene test for this (tools/diagnostics/scene test).  Alternatively, you can activate your device scene and follow with a query to see if the device responded correctly.

In my case above, I was able to improve the signal levels by installing a On/Off module upstream from my 2477S (closer to the electrical panel).   

2477S downstream from refrigerator - poor signal levels 

Panel -----------------------------Frige-----2477S

Adding On/Off module upstream of the refrigerator improves signal level.

Panel -------On/Off Module -----Frige-----2477S

 

Edit:

  • Realized you are using a 2475D on your extractor fan.  Dimmers are not normally compatible with fan motors.
  • Your event viewer log is showing Peek/Poke communication during the link table read.  This is an old (I1) method mode that is extremely slow and has been deprecated for most newer devices.  Please check your settings under "Link Management/Advanced Options" to make sure that "Automatic" is selected.  It would appear that you have "I1 Only" selected.

 

Edited by IndyMike
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3 hours ago, EJones01 said:

@IndyMike Thanks for your reply again. Ther 'extractor fan' is my Above hood light in the extractor fan. Its just a halogen Bulb.  I do have "Link Management/Advanced Options" set to "Automatic" so thats weird and possibly why this is screwing up?

@EJones01, the method of writing to the device should not cause the problems you are seeing.  It's just slow and antiquated.

You indicated that your InlineLinc is new.  Unfortunately, the address in the event viewer (17.7A.03) and the antiquated link writing style indicates this is an old device.  Did you happen to get this off Ebay?

I looked at the database (http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/Insteon_device_list.htm) and there were some I1 (non dual band) devices made.  Could you post the firmware revision the ISY is showing for this device?  

Have you checked to see what else is on this circuit?

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This one is V.38  it's on the same circuit as 2 micro dimmers v.48 which do work fine. Sounds like I need to buy another micro dimmer, but they are not cheap! Maybe a Zwave might be a better buy?

Edited by EJones01
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I'm thinking that the V.38 device is a powerline only model.  It should still function fine if it gets enough signal (I have several older devices still in use).  Strange that you have 2 micro dimmers on the same circuit.  I would think these would boost the signal to an acceptable level.

I hate firing the parts cannon at unresolved problems.  Upgrading to a newer micro-dimmer would bring in some newer capabilities (dual band, i2CS, different repeating), but they are expensive.  Z-wave brings it's own issues with establishing a good mesh.  Impossible to recommend without knowing your installation, ISY model, and how many z-wave devices you have.  I personally would not use anything less than a 700 series z-wave device for reliability.

Before you swap out this device, please try a few last things:

  1. Try changing your communication mode to "device reported" (/link management/advanced options/device reported).  This should force the ISY to use I2 communication during link table reads.
  2. Perform a link table read and compare to make sure the device is properly programmed.  If the compare shows errors, restore the device and perform the link table read/compare again.
  3. Power cycle the InlineLinc (may require cycling the breaker) then retry scene communications.  This should eliminate any learned AGC settings.  Improvements may be temporary.  
  4. Try a factory reset/restore on your InlineLinc - retry scene communications.  There are some settings that can only be eliminated by a factory reset (X10 programming is one).
  5. Take a hard look for other devices on this circuit.  It sounds like your "extractor fan" is a range hood in a kitchen.  Kitchens are loaded with appliances that can absorb Insteon signals (Microwaves, Air fryers, toaster ovens, Kuerig's).  See what you can unplug to try increasing signal level.  

When you are done with the above, you may want to switch your communication mode back to "automatic".  Most devices function fine with "device reported".  I have one old Icon switch that doesn't like it.

 

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@IndyMikeThanks for all the help. I did learn a few things about Insteon so not all is lost. BUT I cannot get this dimmer to work reliably enough. I thought I'd try one of these and it works great from Alexa...GLEDOPTO ZigBee 3.0 Triac AC Dimmer Switch Mini LED Dimmable Switch 400W Max Push Button Smart App Voice Control Work with H/ue Alexa Tuya Smart Life Conbee Zigbee2mqtt Home Assistant (Hub Required): Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

But it doesn't work from an Insteon switch that is controlling the scene. My ZWave devices do work in scenes controlled by Insteon switches though. Is this a limitation with the Zigbee implementation or am I missing something?

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@EJones01, The device that you linked to is a Zigbee device.  Not sure what UD device you are using to talk to it.  My experience is with the ISY 994I which will NOT talk to a Zigbee device.

If you have a Polisy or Eisy that supports the Zigbee protocol, please post back.  There are other forum members than can assist.

 

 

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Yes I have a Polisy. The scene does work correctly from Alex commands through Polisy, its only when the scene is triggered from an Insteon switch it doesnt work correctly. Further investigation is that it does come on, but at the default On Level, not the level set in the scene. (ZWave devices work OK in the same scenes)

I'll start a new thread.

Edited by EJones01
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