Random Lights On - No Comms in Log - YoLink?

[mdfled]

Recently I was having several scenes turn on randomly.  I've monitored the logs and checked link tables.  Where needed I've factory reset devices and restored them if I found anything unusual or missing in the device's link tables.  After going through all of the troubleshooting and still having issues, I shutdown the eisy to see if the phantom problems went away; with the eisy offline my problems went away. 

I had noticed that there might be some correlation between my YoLink motion sensors and the random turning on of lights and the central vacuum.  I checked and updated the node server for YoLink, still issues.  Since I'm using programs associated with the YoLink motion sensors I decided to disable several of the programs that utilize the YoLink devices to see if they were the cause; the problems have gone away after disabling the motion programs that utilize the YoLink devices; I still have some YoLink associated programs running and they aren't causing a problem.  I should say, the programs that are disabled are indoors and probably get triggered more than the outdoor sensors, but it has been over a week and I haven't had any random lights turning on.

These symptoms then begs the question, is it the program or something strange with specific nodes on the YoLink node server?  I'm also curious why I'm not seeing the commands (viewing the logs) from the PLM/eisy when I have the random turn-ons?  I wouldn't think the YoLink node server has anything to do with the phantom on commands, and since I have Insteon motion sensors in my configuration, and other node servers, I don't think it is anything unique to motion sensors.  I've never stopped the YoLink service so all the motion sensors are still working, I've just disabled the programs the motion sensors are associated with.  I haven't removed the YoLink motion sensors, just disabled programs, so I can see the YoLink device's lights when they detect my motion, so I know they are still working and not directly causing any false "on" messages (which I didn't think was likely).  If I turn the lights on associated with the scenes that are called in the programs in question, I don't get other lights randomly turning on, so I don't think this is related to the association between devices in a scene.  Also, I have a wide mix of devices and ages of devices.  This only started occurring when I installed some new i3 devices, but based on symptoms, I don't think the i3 devices are causing issues as things are working fine with the programs in question disabled.

My next step will be to one by one turn on, each program to find out if it is one specific program or a group of programs.  I plan on writing new programs as a test if the symptoms come back, but I'd like to better understand how a program could run and send out spurious commands without anything showing in the logs?  Is there some way communications occur that won't show up in the log, or some other way to configure the log to capture all of the communications?  

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.  I'll post again if I happen to find a solution as I enable (one by one) the disabled programs.

Edited September 24 by mdfled

[paulbates]

Looks like you've taken logical diagnostic steps. A suggestion, since its not mentioned by name, is to leave iox / AC running and turn on the event viewer and set the level to 3 at the bottom

Edited September 24 by paulbates

[drprm1]

I was having exact same  issues after deploying about ten Yolink motion sensors. Was having phantom ons like you but it was only sensors I had that were controllers in scenes. Took all out of scenes and used program triggers.This took care of my phantom ons…….

 

[mdfled]

Thanks for your replies!

DRPRM1 seems to me there is a problem with the YoLink node server since you seem to have had the same symptoms and the removal of the YoLink stuff seems to cure the issue.  I only run their motion detectors, so YoLink motion sensors seem to be the issue.  Funny, but I have some programs that are running that use YoLink motion sensors, and they seem to be behaving correctly?  Also interesting, I have had the YoLink devices for longer than the i3 switches (installed for more than a year before adding i3 switches) so I'm wondering if there isn't something going on between the YoLink devices and the i3 switches.

I'll go in and set the error log to level 3 and reenable the programs that seem to be causing the issues.

[drprm1]

Again I haven’t seen the phantom on behavior since I removed the motion sensors from scenes.(it drove me nuts before realizing that some command was sent even though the area hadn’t been tripped)

I did specify in programs that motion sensors only use the ON command. This has to be changed in AC or UD MOBILE. Realized early on that after restarting nodeserver it changes back to send on and off commands. Panda suggested using a program to change the motion sensors to sending only ON commands which I did.

i got this all sorted out when most of my devices started to  go offline for long periods. Sent note about this to Yolink support. They wanted to know my hub’s EUI number. I guess it was an early model because they sent me a new hub.

Have a lot of Yolink devices that all work great again.

[larryllix]

One thing I discovered is that Insteon scenes do not get ACKs back to the PLM and therefore EISY does not log them so there is nothing to see. This was always a problem for the phantom All On, as it seemed to just be another predefined scene.

I conclude phantom scenes being turned on are noise created in the Insteon system, somewhere between RF devices, the PLM, and ISY's low level drivers, somewhere.

Edited September 24 by larryllix

[mdfled]

Thanks Larry, I don't thing this is communication noise as everything works well with the programs in question disabled.  Thanks for confirming that the event log may not show some of the communications where scenes are involved.  Obviously, not an ideal situation if you can't see what is going on.  I'd love to have a sniffer like device/software that would allow me to monitor traffic in real time!

DRPRM1 can you please explain or send me the link for the discussion about using programs to force only on from the YoLink motion sensors?  Please elaborate.

[drprm1]

Well I’m trying to get only on commands so just make a program and specify it

 I run then if I need to reset all

 

[mdfled]

Ok, I'll see if that helps.  Thanks!

[mdfled]

Ok, I implemented the program to force the DON for any of my YoLink MDs, and I've turned on one of the MD programs that I disabled when troubleshooting.  This morning, one of the phantom turn-ons happened, from what I can tell.  I'll turn on another program after a couple more days with the current configuration to see if I have any more phantoms in the house.  I'll post back, once I know more.

[larryllix]

On 9/24/2024 at 3:37 PM, mdfled said:

Thanks Larry, I don't thing this is communication noise as everything works well with the programs in question disabled.  Thanks for confirming that the event log may not show some of the communications where scenes are involved.  Obviously, not an ideal situation if you can't see what is going on.  I'd love to have a sniffer like device/software that would allow me to monitor traffic in real time!

DRPRM1 can you please explain or send me the link for the discussion about using programs to force only on from the YoLink motion sensors?  Please elaborate.

The noise is created by your system crashing Insteon packets. This is a known problem for Insteon RF devices that have no power line synchronisations and no proper system listening capabilities. When Insteon RF devices transmit, they repeat their messages several times to ensure they get through more reliably. If another device transmits another signal immediately it cna cause a signal clash.

This would be common with 
   MS -+--rf---->PLM-->ISY program--->PLM----wiring--+-->Insteon  hop------??-->
      !----------------------repeat-----------------------------^

[mdfled]

Larry, thanks for the reply.  If I understand you correctly, I'm guessing you missed that the motion sensors in question are YoLink sensors and not Insteon sensors?  I think I've narrowed it down to one program that has a single YoLink motion sensor associated with it; I reenabled my "laundry room" program and the phantom turn-ons started again.  I'm going to try and build a new program to see if my problems go away.   Thanks for your input!