All-On Defacto Summary

vbPhil · Wednesday at 03:14 PM

I got hit with the All-On this morning. At least I believe it to be that. It always happens at an inconvenient time, and I just start turning things off and going back to sleep instead of recognizing just what modules are affected.

Is there a topic here in the forum that gives a good summary of what this is and some remedies?

Thanks

Techman · Wednesday at 04:12 PM

INSTEON Random All On Events - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki

also, if you have any MS their low battery condition can cause an all on event

vbPhil · Wednesday at 04:24 PM

11 minutes ago, Techman said:

if you have any MS their low battery

my mind is getting old and I can't decipher MS, what is it?

atmarosi · Wednesday at 04:30 PM

Motion sensors

vbPhil · Wednesday at 05:10 PM

Isn't the All-On condition the result of an All-On command (scene control) being issued by the PLM because of certain random events happening and only older Insteon devices will respond to the All-On. Firmware in newer devices don't have the All-On capability so they shouldn't respond. If true, then get rid of all those older devices and the problem should go away?

IndyMike · Wednesday at 08:15 PM

2 hours ago, vbPhil said:

Isn't the All-On condition the result of an All-On command (scene control) being issued by the PLM because of certain random events happening and only older Insteon devices will respond to the All-On. Firmware in newer devices don't have the All-On capability so they shouldn't respond. If true, then get rid of all those older devices and the problem should go away?

In a couple of words - yes and yes.

No one has actually documented an All-On collision. There are numerous theories about how and where the collisions occur. My personal favorite is that they occur at the serial interface between the ISY and PLM.

As far as I know, current PLM still contain the all-on command. Many modules have had the all-on response removed, but there is no clear listing of devices/firmware revisions.

You can test to see which of your devices is susceptible by issuing an All-On command from the admin console -

All-On Susceptibility Testing

paulbates · Wednesday at 09:06 PM

1 hour ago, IndyMike said:

As far as I know, current PLM still contain the all-on command.

Agreed. in that discussion we found it possible to send an All On from the button on the bottom of the iox device screen. I can't imagine where/how else the ISY could have sent that if not from the PLM itself..

My PLM that did it was recently bought one at that time.

Edited Wednesday at 10:06 PM by paulbates

vbPhil · Wednesday at 09:41 PM

1 hour ago, IndyMike said:

All-On Susceptibility Testing

yikes! my memory is shot. I was involved in that discussion and totally forgot about it.

IndyMike · Thursday at 01:23 PM

On 12/18/2024 at 4:41 PM, vbPhil said:

yikes! my memory is shot. I was involved in that discussion and totally forgot about it.

Right with you my friend... I can't begin to remember what I've forgotten. Google is my friend...

The Wiki link that @Techman posted offers useful techniques for mitigating the issue. I have 7 motion sensors and Many KPL's. Since implementing the mitigations, I'm down to around 1-2/year events.

There are a number of posts around that detail All-On detectors. Having said that, I can't locate any.

I use a 2457D2 LampLinc located next to my PLM. The LampLinc is linked to the PLM, but is not part of any scene or program. Edit - Not completely correct since the LampLinc is a member of MyLighting which is effectively a scene. The thinking here is that the only way this device turns on is if an All-ON event occurred. I use a program to poll the device every 5 minutes. If the program sees an ON status, it shuts down MyLighting.

Note that this is not foolproof. It assumes that the LampLinc will be turned on during an even. There have been reports of "partial" all-on events. The protocol supports commands to any scene #, so it is certainly possible to have random scenes activated.

Query Program

All on Poll - [ID 0023][Parent 000A][Run At Startup]
If
        Time is Last Run Time for 'All on Poll' +  5 minutes
Then
        Set 'All On Detect' Query
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Shutdown Program

All on response - [ID 0013][Parent 000A][Run At Startup]
If
        'All On Detect' Status > Off
Then
        Set 'My Lighting' Off
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Another theory is that the events became prevalent after the introduction of the 2413S PLM with RF. The RF interface allows MS's and other devices to bombard the PLM out of synch with the powerline. I have tried disabling the RF receiver on PLM's with inconclusive results. In the end, I can't reliably re-produce the problem, so I can't reliably say that I've fixed it. In other words, I got tired and lost interest.

It seems that some of the older posts on All-On events have been removed or locked. Here's a walk down memory lane for anyone interested.

how-to-test-insteon-devices-for-all-on-vulnerability

all-on-removed-in-what-firmware-version-of-switchlinc-dimmers

all-on-all-off-incidents

considering-disabling-isy-due-to-all-on-bug-process-to-remove-it

another-all-on-event

devices-turn-on-or-off-unexpectedly

random-all-on-event

Edited Friday at 01:23 PM by IndyMike