Control works, but unable to write to Insteon devices after upgrade to EISY and new USB PLM

[jduino]

Longtime ISY user, I was finally forced to upgrade to the EISY. Dreaded it but it went smoothly except it just wouldn't communciate with my existing/old serial plm. One new USB PLM later, and all my programs and devices were working again. Except I noticed most of the switches would flash RED after manually changing them. I read two explanations: messed up links, or failure to communicate. Then I realized that whenever I manually switched, and had the admin console open, I'd get an alert about that device not responding. More playing in admin console reveals I cannot write changes or query. I've done a lot of other experimenting without success. Any ideas? Tests? Things to look for in event viewer? I have over 50 devices and who knows how many programs.

Firmware:
/UI IoX v5.8.4

Product:
eisy(5226)
openADR (21010)
Networking Modules (21040)
Portal Integration - UDI (21075)
Z-Wave Module (21100)
A10/X10 Modules (21060)

[DennisC]

When you replaced the plm did you follow the procedure outlined in UD's wiki?

The instructions call out the order of putting up devices and running restore plm and must be followed.

[IndyMike]

@jduino, as @DennisC indicated, something has gone awry with the upgrade procedure and your new PLM address was not written to your devices.

If you watch the ISY event viewer during a device write sequence (Level 3), you will likely see "[Std-Direct Nack]" in the mix.  This is the device telling the PLM that it doesn't have the PLM address in it's link table.  In short, the PLM doesn't have permission to write to it.   You can post a copy of the event viewer if you wish

This is an Insteon feature in newer devices called I2CS that added security.  Most of these devices will allow you to turn them on/off even without the PLM link.  They will not allow more advanced operations.

Older devices that do not have I2CS will write without issue.  HOWEVER, if the PLM link is incorrect, the device will not communicate it's status back to the PLM during local operation (still communicating to the old PLM).

Lastly, your devices are flashing red on local operation because they are trying to communicate with your OLD PLM which is no longer in the system.

Difficult to know where the process broke down.  The safe bet would be to start the upgrade process from the beginning as suggested by @DennisC.  This way you won't encounter a missing step later.  

Sorry for the previous post(s) - forum will not allow me to post with ANY rich text

[jduino]

7 hours ago, DennisC said:

When you replaced the plm did you follow the procedure outlined in UD's wiki?

The instructions call out the order of putting up devices and running restore plm and must be followed.

As near as I can tell, yes. The fact that I can control everything via the EISY tells me at least that much worked right. It's been a few months (life interfering with fun) but I don't recall any issues along those lines.

[DennisC]

4 hours ago, IndyMike said:

something has gone awry with the upgrade procedure and your new PLM address was not written to your devices.

As @IndyMike told you, the PLM address is not correctly written to your devices, or if everything worked correctly after the PLM swap, then the existing PLM is probable on the way out.

How many Insteon devices do you have?

Go to Tools - Diagnostics - PLM Info/Status. Does it show the PLM connected?

Try checking the PLM Links Table under Tools - Diagnostics. If the number doesn't equate to the number of devices you have, then you have confirmation of what we are telling you.

 

[jduino]

6 hours ago, IndyMike said:

@jduino, as @DennisC indicated, something has gone awry with the upgrade procedure and your new PLM address was not written to your devices.

If you watch the ISY event viewer during a device write sequence (Level 3), you will likely see "[Std-Direct Nack]" in the mix.  This is the device telling the PLM that it doesn't have the PLM address in it's link table.  In short, the PLM doesn't have permission to write to it.   You can post a copy of the event viewer if you wish

This is an Insteon feature in newer devices called I2CS that added security.  Most of these devices will allow you to turn them on/off even without the PLM link.  They will not allow more advanced operations.

Older devices that do not have I2CS will write without issue.  HOWEVER, if the PLM link is incorrect, the device will not communicate it's status back to the PLM during local operation (still communicating to the old PLM).

Lastly, your devices are flashing red on local operation because they are trying to communicate with your OLD PLM which is no longer in the system.

Difficult to know where the process broke down.  The safe bet would be to start the upgrade process from the beginning as suggested by @DennisC.  This way you won't encounter a missing step later.  

Sorry for the previous post(s) - forum will not allow me to post with ANY rich text

Well, I wrote a long reply to this then it errored when I submitted *sigh*

Thank you for the reply and information. I really should learn the protocol.

Two other bits of data:

1) I tried adding a new/unused 2663-225 dual outlet. Whether I try to add via New Insteon Device or Start Linking, it returns with Cannot Determine Insteon Engine. I read this means it can't communicate with the PLM?
Here is the event viewer info from that:
ri 12/20/2024 15:58:20 : [4d 43 cd    ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:20 : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 4D 43 CD 0F 0D 00
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:20 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 4D.43.CD 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:22 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4D.43.CD 70.8E.73 A7 0D FF           (FF)
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:22 : [Std-Direct Nack] 4D.43.CD-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:22 : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 4D 43 CD 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:22 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 4D.43.CD 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:31 : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 4D 43 CD 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:31 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 4D.43.CD 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:40 : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 4D 43 CD 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:40 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 4D.43.CD 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:44 : [4D 43 CD 0  ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:44 : [All         ] Writing 106 bytes to devices
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:44 : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 1C 26 B6 0F 0D 00
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:44 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 1C.26.B6 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)  
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:53 : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 1C 26 B6 0F 0D 00
Fri 12/20/2024 15:58:53 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 1C.26.B6 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

2) I have an existing 2477D dualband switchlinc v.45 that was flashing red. I did a factory reset (hoping it'd clear the PLM setting as well as links), then Restore Device. That seemed to complete OK. But now it's constantly showing that it needs to be written (green arrow), and when I try it steps thru it and finishes without complaint. The red light no longer blinks, but otherwise things are the same functionally. Here is the event viewer from the write:
Fri 12/20/2024 14:13:42 : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 4D 83 1C 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0
Fri 12/20/2024 14:13:42 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 4D.83.1C 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06        (00)
Fri 12/20/2024 14:13:51 : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 4D 83 1C 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0
Fri 12/20/2024 14:13:51 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 4D.83.1C 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06        (00)
Fri 12/20/2024 14:14:00 : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 4D 83 1C 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0
Fri 12/20/2024 14:14:01 : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 4D.83.1C 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06        (00)

@DennisC it does worry me that the very-new PLM might be bad. Is there any way of resetting the devices (ala factory reset that I tried above) to clear the PLM for I2CS?

I have in excess of 50 devices at this time...too scared to add them up and figure the total $$$

PLM info/status is "70.83.7e v9E/Connected."

PLM Links table..tried it before with nothign showing after hitting Start, but I guess I wasn't patient. 94 entries. I'm not quite sure how to read the table (but did figure out it save the file as dec, but the gui shows hex)

 

Once again, thank you for all the help and eyeballs so far! I really do appreciate it.

[Techman]

@jduino

If you exactly followed the replace PLM instructions (see attached) and you're still having issues then try doing a restore PLM

Replace PLM Procedure (EISY or POLISY).pdf

Edited Friday at 11:12 PM by Techman

[jduino]

58 minutes ago, Techman said:

@jduino

If you exactly followed the replace PLM insturctions (see attached) and you're still having issues then try doing a restore PLM

Replace PLM Procedure (EISY or POLISY).pdf 170.85 kB · 0 downloads

I believe this is what I had to do previously when I had to put in the new USB plm when I couldn't get the Serial PLM to communicate with the eisy. I will try this tonight, but if it couldn't communicate/reload the PLM, wouldn't most/all of my devices be in mode in Admin Console where they are wanting a write?

Can't hurt to try it, that's for sure. I will do this later tonight.

[IndyMike]

Device 1 is showing a NACK (not linked) followed by 3 consecutive time-outs trying to communicate .

Device 2 is showing 3 consecutive time-outs as well.

You may want to investigate the circuit your PLM is on.  You may have something absorbing signal or generating noise (PC, UPS, etc).  

Alternatively, you could move your PLM to another circuit or bring a device close to the PLM to see if things improve.

Edited yesterday at 03:04 PM by IndyMike

[DennisC]

49 minutes ago, IndyMike said:

Alternatively, you could move your PLM to another circuit

Definitely try @IndyMikesuggestion.

[jduino]

4 hours ago, IndyMike said:

Device 1 is showing a NACK (not linked) followed by 3 consecutive time-outs trying to communicate .

Device 2 is showing 3 consecutive time-outs as well.

You may want to investigate the circuit your PLM is on.  You may have something absorbing signal or generating noise (PC, UPS, etc).  

Alternatively, you could move your PLM to another circuit or bring a device close to the PLM to see if things improve.

I will try alternate locations. No 'positive' changes to the electronics/ups's/etc (my son moved off to college so his computer, iracing rig, etc went with him), and it has always been in the same location.

I also have a new PLM inbound (well, ordered) just to hedge that potential, and nice to have a spare.
I truly appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions!