KPL Button Control in Scene

[jwf]

I tried looking in the forums and instructions on this. This is what I can't figure out. How can I add a KPL button as a responder in a scene and have it mimic a toggle with another KPL button as if I was actually pressing the button on the KPL itself.

 

The reason I am doing this is am using my IRLinc to control a scene that mimics a scene when you use the KPL instead.

 

This is like having mutually exclusive groups for the KPL buttons but only work at the KPL level and not on a scene level.

 

BTW, the more I learn about the ISY the more I am loving it and the less I regret ditching HL1 and HL2.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello jwf,

 

Unfortunately Mutex buttons only work at local levels. i.e. if you have a KPL mutex button and then you drop it as a responder in another scene, the mutex relationships have no bearing whatsoever on the outcome: the button responds to the scene command as if there are NO mutex relationships.

 

With kind regards,

 

Michel

[jwf]

How do you create mutex buttons then with scenes like the intstructions suggest when you bring up the button grouping option?

[LeeG]

The Button Grouping feature of a KPL (only 1 button in the group On at a time, sometimes referred to as mutex or radio buttons) applies to Scenes where the KPL button is the Controller, Scene initiated by a KPL button press. The Button Grouping relationship does not apply to Scenes where the ISY is the Controller (Scene turned On/Off from Programs) with one of the KPL buttons in the Group as a Responder. The Scene(s) itself is a normal Scene with a KPL button as the Controller and one or more devices as Responders. The KPL simply insures that all buttons in the Group are Off except for the button in the Group that is pressed to turn On. Scene processing for the active KPL button press is the same whether the button is part of a Button Group or not.

[xd40]

Jeff,

 

I'm trying to do the same thing right now. Hopefully we can put our heads together and make this work.

 

Let us say we have 2 scenes that operate differently on the same loads and are thus mutually exclusive:

 

Scene A & Scene B

 

We use the ISY to create scene A & B

 

We use the ISY to make buttons A & B Controllers for scene A & B

 

We use the ISY option "Link Management/Add Button to IRLinc Receiver" to add remote control buttons A & B

 

We use the ISY to make the remote control buttons A & B Controllers for the scene A & B

 

Finally, we use the ISY to make the buttons mutually exclusive (even though the console warns us that their are issues with this)

 

Now:

 

when we go to the keypadlinc and press A, scene A activates and the light on Button A on the keypadlinc comes on. Next we press B and Scene B activates, the light on Button B comes on, and the light in button A goes out.

 

However, here's the problem:

 

we use the remote and press button A and scene A activates and the light on Button A goes on. Next we press B on the remote and Scene B activates, the light on Button B goes on, but the light on button A stays on.

 

This is what you need to be able to do and I THOUGHT you could do it on older versions of the console:

 

On Button A, Add Button B as a RESPONDER and set its On Level to 0%. On Button B, add Button A as a RESPONDER and set its On Level to 0%. You can no longer do this though because the BUTTONS do not show up in the section that allows you to set their on level (I swear they used to in the older version of the console -- I'm on 2.7.15 now and I just upgraded from some beta version that was after the version that they fixed the big keypadlinc problem).

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello xd40,

 

Please note that Mutex buttons are only active locally (i.e. when you press the buttons on the switch). If you do anything with them in scenes where other controller control them, then the KPL responds as if there are no mutex buttons.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[xd40]

Hello xd40,

 

Please note that Mutex buttons are only active locally (i.e. when you press the buttons on the switch). If you do anything with them in scenes where other controller control them, then the KPL responds as if there are no mutex buttons.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

CORRECT--that is why you need to create the mutual exclusion using the SCENE, which you now CAN'T do.

[LeeG]

The technique of issuing an ON command to 0% to turn a device Off does not work on KeypadLinc Secondary buttons. This is KPL hardware. It works with the Primary load button (ON in 6 button mode, Main in 8 button mode) but not the Secondary button LEDs.

 

This can be done by defining a Scene with the KPL Secondary button as a Responder and turning the Scene Off. Define a Scene for each Secondary button or combination of Secondary buttons you want to turn Off and then turn the Scene(s) Off.

 

Smartlabs is constantly adding/changing device function so it might work on some KPL but all the KPLs I have tested here will not turn Off a Secondary KPL button LED using an ON to 0%.

[xd40]

LeeG,

 

Doing what you said will probably work, but then you are in the realm of needing the ISY to intervene to operate a scene. I have avoided that up to this point and only use the ISY for more complex scenes that are done with relationship to time or other status values (i.e. nobody home).

 

I could have SWORN you used to be able to independently control a secondary button as a responder in a scene in an older version of ISY but you sure can't now.

[LeeG]

I could have SWORN you used to be able to independently control a secondary button as a responder in a scene in an older version of ISY but you sure can't now.

 

You can control a Secondary button as a responder in a Scene. You can turn the Scene On and the secondary button will turn On and of course you can turn the Scene Off and the secondary button will turn Off. What you cannot do is turn the Scene On (which uses an Insteon ON command) and have that Insteon ON command turn the Secondary KPL button Off.

 

EDIT: I agree with the approach that the devices should work as much as possible independent of any automation. I want my basic house to function whether the PC or ISY is up or down.

[xd40]

O.K. I've finally got it. Wow, I could write this functionality in .NET in about 2 minutes--this took help from LeeG and several HOURS...

 

Limitations:

 

The ISY can't directly turn a KeypadLinc secondary button off, so:

 

 

Added 2 Scenes:

 

Scene-BTN-A

Scene-BTN-B

 

Added 2 programs (pseudo code):

 

If Control Remote-BTN-A is switched  On
Then
  Set Scene Scene-BTN-B Off

If Control Remote-BTN-B is switched  On
Then
  Set Scene Scene-BTN-A Off

 

so this, plus the stuff from my first post makes all of this work (finally).

 

thanks for sticking with me on this LeeG !

 

[jwf]

Jeff,

 

I'm trying to do the same thing right now. Hopefully we can put our heads together and make this work.

 

Let us say we have 2 scenes that operate differently on the same loads and are thus mutually exclusive:

 

Scene A & Scene B

 

We use the ISY to create scene A & B

 

We use the ISY to make buttons A & B Controllers for scene A & B

 

We use the ISY option "Link Management/Add Button to IRLinc Receiver" to add remote control buttons A & B

 

We use the ISY to make the remote control buttons A & B Controllers for the scene A & B

 

Finally, we use the ISY to make the buttons mutually exclusive (even though the console warns us that their are issues with this)

 

Now:

 

when we go to the keypadlinc and press A, scene A activates and the light on Button A on the keypadlinc comes on. Next we press B and Scene B activates, the light on Button B comes on, and the light in button A goes out.

 

However, here's the problem:

 

we use the remote and press button A and scene A activates and the light on Button A goes on. Next we press B on the remote and Scene B activates, the light on Button B goes on, but the light on button A stays on.

 

This is what you need to be able to do and I THOUGHT you could do it on older versions of the console:

 

On Button A, Add Button B as a RESPONDER and set its On Level to 0%. On Button B, add Button A as a RESPONDER and set its On Level to 0%. You can no longer do this though because the BUTTONS do not show up in the section that allows you to set their on level (I swear they used to in the older version of the console -- I'm on 2.7.15 now and I just upgraded from some beta version that was after the version that they fixed the big keypadlinc problem).

 

That is also what I was trying to do and I was trying to decipher the warning message in the Grouping dialog for KPL buttons as well.

[xd40]

That is also what I was trying to do and I was trying to decipher the warning message in the Grouping dialog for KPL buttons as well.

 

Jeff,

 

If you have questions on this, just post to this thread--I'll keep watching it and help you out if I can. I have my configuration working fairly well now.