New Guy With A Few ISY/Insteon Questions

[midrar]

When creating a program in Program Details under the Then statement, will it execute the things in order or instantly. I'm trying to see if I can just put a whole bunch of then statements in order or should I put a 1 second delay. Is there really a difference?

 

In the If statement, Can I go from Sunset to Sunrise? If so how, All I could find Is either using AND or OR but not TO.

 

I have a button on a keypad that I want to turn off after I execute a program. The problem is when I started the program, I just selected if this button is ON. But when I want to turn the button OFF at the end, its not just giving me ON/OFF. Instead I find a whole bunch of dim levels and I don't know which is default. If someone could let me know that one, that would be great cause I would like all my keypads to have matching brightness levels. Thanks.

 

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[IndyMike]

Hello midrar,

 

Please see (some) answers below.

 

When creating a program in Program Details under the Then statement, will it execute the things in order or instantly. I'm trying to see if I can just put a whole bunch of then statements in order or should I put a 1 second delay. Is there really a difference?

 

Then statements will be executed in the order entered. Rather than executing a bunch of individual statements, you may want to create a "Scene" with multiple modules. You can then use one simple statement to turn the "Scene" on or off.

 

The only place that I currently use "wait" statements is between X10 and Insteon commands.

 

In the If statement, Can I go from Sunset to Sunrise? If so how, All I could find Is either using AND or OR but not TO.

 

Here's an example of a "night" condition -

 

If

From Sunset + 1 minute

To Sunrise - 1 minute (next day)

And (

Status 'Fam Room / Fam KPL 7 - Floods' is On

Or Status 'Mud KPL 6 - Floods' is On

Or Status 'Master KPL 7 - Flood' is On

)

 

Then

Wait 10 minutes

Wait 10 minutes (Random)

Run Program 'X10 Contol Floods Off' (Then Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

I have a button on a keypad that I want to turn off after I execute a program. The problem is when I started the program, I just selected if this button is ON. But when I want to turn the button OFF at the end, its not just giving me ON/OFF. Instead I find a whole bunch of dim levels and I don't know which is default. If someone could let me know that one, that would be great cause I would like all my keypads to have matching brightness levels. Thanks.

 

The dim levels are for backlight control and are for the entire KPL (not individual buttons).

 

Create a scene with the Keypadlinc button that you want to control (i.e. xxx program status). You will then be able to control the "Scene" from your then statement.

[midrar]

Your suggestions worked great but I have a different question now:

 

I programmed an Away Scene To turn off all of my lights. The problem is after Sunset, I wanted a different scene to come on to show an occupied look. I thought I could just create 2 scenes for after sun rise or after sun set. But what about that transition from Day to Night? Since I have the Away Button turn off after the program executues, I don't know how to incorporate both of these programs into one? Any suggestions?

[oberkc]

How are you planning to designate whether you are home or away? A keypad button?

 

You could create two program folders, one with the condition that the away button is on. Put in this folder all programs you want to run when this button is on (pick home or away).

 

The second folder would have the condition that the away button is off. Put in this folder the programs you want to run when this is off.

 

I am sure there is some way to have some complicated logic, ands, ors, nested conditions, etc, but it seems that this might be a simple way to accomplish your goals..

 

Is this on the right track?

[midrar]

Correct, I am using a keypad button I have called "Away" to begin the program. The problem with creating 2 programs (1 if the button is ON, 2nd if the button is OFF) is that if the button is OFF, I don't want the program to run when I'm home. So, I don't think that would work, but what do I know, i've only been playing with this ISY for a short time.

[oberkc]

I apologize for being unclear. My suggestion is to create two program FOLDERS (are you familiar with these?). Program folders include programs. Program folders include their own conditions. If the program folder condition is true, then the programs within are enabled. If false, then disabled.

 

Create a home folder and an away folder, with conditions based upon you keypad button condition. Put the correct programs within each folder. Programs you want to run when home, put in the home folder. Those you want to run when away, put in the away folder.

[midrar]

I'm not at all familiar with program folders but I will do some more research about it. Does wiki have an indepth explanation between a program and program folder?

 

So, I want to make sure I understand you correctly. You are saying to use a second program folder for when the button is off After sunset. But, wouldn't it then not care if I was home or not and turn on those lights regardless?

[oberkc]

You are saying to use a second program folder for when the button is off After sunset.

 

"second"? Have you already created the first folder?

 

A quick check of the wiki shows some explanation about program folders. Be aware, these are a relatively new addition to the software. They are not available on older builds. Of course, you can update yours, if you haven't already.

 

It is possible that I am failing to understand your intenentions here, but I am assuming you want to have a keypad button to designate home or away status. Keypad button will be on for home and off for away, or vice versa.

 

I further assume that you have, or can create, a set of programs. Some you want to run when home. Others are to run when you are away.

 

My suggestion is to create two program FOLDERS. Each folder will include the programs you want to run when the folder condition is true. One folder would contain programs that you want to run when home, the other to contain the programs you want to run when you are away. The folder condition would be your keypad status: on (or off) for home, off (or on) for away.

[midrar]

This is my intention. I've got the Home button programmed fine. My issue is if its in the day time and I push the Away button, my program turns off all the lights I want off. But after sunset, the lights are off and now I want to have certain lights ON to give an occupied look. So I understand I can create another program to to turn my lights I want on when I push the Away button. The problem is how do I mesh the program to work before and after sunset together? Let me know if I haven't been clear enough. Thanks.

[paulw]

I just use one button, when it is off it is 'at home' when pushed it is 'away'. It has no links to anything.

 

You can use that for testing in your logic, along with any other items like sunset etc. to give the lived in look.

[oberkc]

I've got the Home button programmed fine. My issue is if its in the day time and I push the Away button, my program turns off all the lights I want off. But after sunset, the lights are off and now I want to have certain lights ON to give an occupied look. So I understand I can create another program to to turn my lights I want on when I push the Away button.

 

I don't understand what you mean when you say you have the "Home button programmed fine". Is it part of a scene? Do you already have a program using the home button as a condition?

 

It sounds to me as if my communication skills are not up to the task here. Either I am not understanding your problem or am not communicating my proposed solution. Perhaps others can chime in here? Perhaps a general example can help:

 

create an away program folder with conditions:

 

if
status of "away button" is on
then
run programs in this folder

 

In this folder, add a programs, such as

 

if 
time is from sunset to sunrise (next day)
then
set scene "away" on
else
set scene "away" off

 

Create a second foler with conditions:

 

if
status of "away" is off
then
run programs in this folder

 

In this folder add a program such as

 

if time is from sunset
to sunrise (next day)
then 
set scene "home" on
else
set scene "home" off

 

Keep in mind these code lines are from my mind and may not exactly match the words used by ISY, or the names of the devices or scenes you have.

 

There are also lots of considerations. Do you want ALL interior lights to go off at sunrise? Are there certain lights or devices that come on regardless of whether you are home or away? There are likely some program tweaks that will be necessary here. I intend this only as a general suggestion.

[midrar]

Thanks for making it a little more clearer. I gues I don't have a clear understanding of a Program folder. I've tried to go on wiki to see an explanation but have been unsuccessful. Could you find a link for it and post it here?

 

I have 2 seperate buttons, one I call HOME & the second I call AWAY. This AWAY program that you wrote, what actually ends it? Thanks for your help so far.

 

I think the communication issue lies more with my inexperience. Thanks again.

[LeeG]

Try thinking about a Program Folder like a subdirectory. Only in the ISY case you can assign Conditions to a Program Folder (subdirectory). Only if the Conditions assigned to the Program Folder (subdirectory) are True will the Program Conditions (of the Programs in the Program Folder) be evaluated.

[oberkc]

I have 2 seperate buttons, one I call HOME & the second I call AWAY

 

Do you have these two buttons assigned as "mutually exclusive" (where when one is on the other must be off)? Why not have a single button, where on is home and off is away?

 

This AWAY program that you wrote, what actually ends it?

 

The condition evaluates at sunset and sunrise. At sunset, the condition evaluates as "true" and causes the "then" condition to execute (turning the scene on). At sunrise, the condition evaluates as false and causes the "else condition to execute (turning the scene off).

 

Regarding the wiki, I performed a search on "program folder" and found:

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Folder_Conditions

 

There may be more.

[midrar]

That is a great suggestion to just one button for both. Unfortunately, its a custom etched keypad and I jumped the gun and had one dedicated HOME & one AWAY.

 

Thanks for the link and I have read through it. After playing around it a little more, I think i'm gonna this a try and see what I can come with. I will let you know in the next couple of days if I got it to work. Thanks.

[paulw]

Just a hint when using folders with logic. Just because the conditions for the folder are met, does not mean all the programs will run.

 

The programs within the folder must contain the same condition(s) from the folder in addition to any other required conditions. You will find this in the docs, but easily overlooked.

 

I'm sure more than one of us has fought that fight.

[oberkc]

Unfortunately, its a custom etched keypad and I jumped the gun and had one dedicated HOME & one AWAY.

 

Buttons are easily replaceable. You could even choose one of your two. For example, away. On means away. Off means not away.

 

If you choose to keep both, consider the possibilities if both are on (or both are off). Can this happen? Does this have any adverse consequences on your programs or folders? If you have not already, consider making these to "Mutually Exclusive".

[midrar]

Thats a great point that I wasn't aware of.

 

I've got a different question now though. Back in math, they was something called the order of operations. Basically 4+4x2 is not the same as (4+4)x2. So with an If statement, you can go OR, And, OR, OR, AND. But which order does it execute them in, is it similiar to the order of operatons or is it just as you see it?

[midrar]

I think I just found something called Paren Lines that answeres my own question.

[oberkc]

But which order does it execute them in, is it similiar to the order of operatons or is it just as you see it?

 

In math, multiplication and division happen ahead of addition and subtraction. One can add parentheses to dictate which operations happen first.

 

The same is true with logic. I understand that the ISY-99 follows the standard boolean logic prioritization. Like multiplication over addition, "Ands" happen ahead of "Ors". Like with math, the ISY also provides the ability to group operations with parentheses, forcing the operations within the parentheses to be evaluated as a group.

 

For example, "A and B or C" is naturally evaluated "(A and or C". However, one could add one's own parentheses and force this to be "A and (B or C)". These two statements have different outputs (true or false) with varying inputs (A, B, or C).

[midrar]

I was reading in a Smarthome forum that it is recommended to use Houselinc 2 to manage links, and ISY to create scenes. So I actually have them both hooked up but only use houselinc to look at links. Problem is, its causing these weird things to happen with my ISY. So I eliminated the houselinc all together and ISY is working like a champ.

 

So, does anyone use this combination without causing problems? If so, how do they use them? Thanks

[LeeG]

Managing links and creating Scenes are the same activity. The combination of any two products trying to do the same job is problematic. The ISY strongly recommends against using anything but the ISY for Scene/link management.

 

HouseLinc2, being a Smarthome product, is more tolerant of creating Set button links outside of HouseLinc2 but there is a performance price for this. HouseLinc2 scans a device for the current link setup before making changes to allow for Set button links. Makes Scene/link management more complex and slower.

 

Stick with the ISY as the only Scene/link manager - IMO.

[midrar]

Why is it that everytime the Query all program runs, it changes the state of my garage door sensor from OFF to ON? Even if I manually query just the Garage door sensor when its off and when it is physically off, it still changes to show that its on.

[oberkc]

Why is it that everytime the Query all program runs, it changes the state of my garage door sensor from OFF to ON?

 

I can only assume that the percieved state of your sensro was initially incorrect and that the query corrected this. I understand that the state of the ISY is based on acknowledgement from devices or reciept of state changes from devices. It can get out of sync if it fails to communicate with those devices, however. Failure to communicate is not generally a problem with the ISY, per se, but due to noise or interference of some type on the powerlines. If there are communication problems, the ISY will assume a state for each device based on latest commands. This assumed state can be incorrect.

 

Do you ever notice any failure of a device to respond to commands? How reliable do you perceive your insteon system?

[midrar]

Well my Insteon system is 99% reliable. I've been very paticular about everything I have done so far. You bring up a good point about incorrectly wiring it. I wired my garage door i/o linc via directions from Smarthome and manually linked it. I did not use the Red wire as states in these directions.

 

 

NOTE: If the I/OLinc loses power for any reason, the Trigger Off gets reset back to off (unchecked). This causes the keypad button light to be inverted and give a false indication of the garage door status until you reprogram the I/OLinc. As this can happen often, I would highly recommend that you use the RED and BLACK wires from the reed switch and NOT the Green wire (NC or Normally Closed reed switch operation).

 

This probably is the reason why.