Mysterious "Control Switched On" Notification. Gho

[Illusion]

I have a program that is enabled (via folder conditions) only when I am not home. This program monitors many of my switches and will notify me if one is touched when no one is supposed to be in my home.

 

At 5.41.10 today while at work I got such a notification for the first time ever! I have had this program running for a long time with never a failure watching lots of switches so I was deeply concerned. It appeared that someone had pressed the switch controlling my bathroom vanity light!

 

After investigating I cannot find any cause. I look in the log and find this:

 

Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity Status 100% Mon 2010/10/25 05:41:10 AM System Log

 

at the time the alert was sent. Immediately preceding this event is this:

 

Scene:Front Compound Lights On 255 Mon 2010/10/25 05:41:09 AM Program Log

Front Yard / Floods - Bedroom Status 100% Mon 2010/10/25 05:41:09 AM System Log

Front Yard / Laura's Flood - Front Status 100% Mon 2010/10/25 05:41:09 AM System Log

Front Yard / Laura's Front Porch Status 100% Mon 2010/10/25 05:41:09 AM System Log

Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity Status 100% Mon 2010/10/25 05:41:10 AM System Log

 

Which shows a scene that has been called due to an outside motion detector tripping. Bathroom Vanity is not part of this scene. And even if it were and got turned on by the scene, that is not the same thing as 'Control'.

 

I am stumped. I have no Idea how this could happen, nor how to prevent it from happening in the future. I did just replace my PLM and built a whole bunch of new scenes. I could understand a light coming on when I did not want it to due to a bad link or some such, but the ISY mistaking a status change in a light for the switch being pressed is unheard of as far as I know.

 

For all I know the light was never even on, let alone having the paddle pressed.

 

Thoughts?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Illusion,

 

Indeed quite odd!

 

May I ask the type of device and the firmware version?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

Switch in question is a 2476D v.27

 

Program that sent notification is a simple as:

 

 

If
       Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom All Off Control' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom All Off Control' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom All On Control' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom All On Control' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Fan' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Fan' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Fan Control' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Fan Control' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Floor Heater' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Floor Heater' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom KeypadLinc' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom KeypadLinc' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom NIght Light Control' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom NIght Light Control' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Shower Fan' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Shower Fan' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Shower Heater' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Shower Heater' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Shower Light' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Shower Light' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Sink Heater' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Sink Heater' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Track Lights' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Track Lights' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity' is switched On
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Garage / Garage Flos' is switched On
    Or Control 'Garage / Garage Flos' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc.D' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc.C' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc.C' is switched On
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc.B' is switched On
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc.B' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc.A' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc.A' is switched On
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc Main' is switched On
    Or Control 'Office / Office KeypadLinc Main' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Kitchen / Kitchen Flos' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Kitchen / Kitchen Flos' is switched On

Then
       Send Notification to 'Text'
       Wait  33 seconds
       Send Notification to 'Email and Text'

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

And this switch is an original install, so it has been part of this program for as long as the program has existed, which was shortly after getting my original ISY-26...

 

you know, back when we were both just kids.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Illusion,

 

Thank you. I am a little confused: how do you know the this program was run because of your 2476D? 2476D comprises only two of the conditions. How about all the other conditions?

 

In short, how did you arrive at the conclusion that the problem was the 2476D in the bathroom?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

Because this is the text I received at 5.41AM:

 

Subject: MANUAL ACTIVATION!!! : Alert

 

MANUAL ACTIVATION!!!

 

'Bathroom Vanity (B 4F B2 1)' set On at 2010/10/25 5:41:10 AM.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Illusion,

 

Thanks so very much.

 

Unless this is a bug somewhere, control should never be activated unless someone or something actually turns the device on.

 

Would you please keep an eye and let us know if you encounter the same problem again. In the meantime, the same program with the same switch and the same PLM is setup and is monitored as well.

 

Wtih kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

Sure, I will let you know. Never happened before in over a thousand hours of being enabled. Not sure what to think of this. Maybe a fly hit the switch really hard flying around in the morning. Ghost?

 

I assume you have never heard of an issue like this before from anybody?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Illusion,

 

Ghost is probably the culprit here

 

Now, we just have to figure out if the ghost is in your house or in the unit.

 

And, no, I have never heard anyone complain about this issue. Hopefully, others viewing this topic can chime in if they have experienced something similar.

 

I am pondering if the new PLM has anything to do with it.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

Update:

 

Several weeks after the initial incident I noticed that my bathroom vanity light was on. This is odd since I am home and when I turn the lights on in the bathroom I do not use the switch that controls the vanity. I use the switch that turns on the track lights, of which the vanity is a scene member. So if I turned the lights on or off in the bathroom the vanity should never be on by itself unless turned on by an ISY program.

 

No ISY programs should have been running at the time. I thought this might be related to my earlier post but had no way to be sure I did not hit the vanity button by accident at some point.

 

So I created another program that is always active:

 

If
       Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity' is switched On

Then
       Wait  33 seconds
       Send Notification to 'Email'

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

And today I notice the vanity on by itself again. I had not been in that bathroom for several hours and the lights were off when I last left it. I open my email and sure enough the bathroom vanity control had been switched on while the bathroom was empty. Looks like I have a failing switch that turns itself on. This is a new one for me.

 

I pulled the cover off the switch for inspection. No unusual issues. Clean interior, no strange protrusions on the plunger from the switch face. I went ahead and vacuumed it anyway for good measure.

 

I factory reset and restored the device in the event it is a software event. I at this point have no way of knowing if the event is internal software or hardware related. I would imagine an unintentional closure of the micro switch is just as likely as a firmware glitch.

 

If it happens again I will report here and replace the switch.

[IndyMike]

Hello Illusion,

 

It's possible that you have a fluorescent or "other load" in the bathroom that is spiking the line and fooling the switch into turning on. Although I haven't experienced this with Insteon units, I've seen it with X10 and other devices. It has nothing to do with communication. Instead, it is a line spike that somehow makes it to the micro itself.

 

I currently have a Leviton fan timer (5, 10, 20, 30 min) in my master bath that can be activated by switching my closet florescent on/off. It is a rare occurrence, but it does happen. Neither is a "communicating" device.

 

Your first instinct to replace the switch is probably a good one. If the replacement acts up, I could look for troublesome loads switching on the same circuit.

[Brian H]

I have an under counter fluorescent light that makes my older revision 1.3 ApplianceLinc click on and off even when Local Control is disabled. The newer revision 4.1 works fine as the hardware was completely revised.

[Illusion]

Hello Illusion,

 

It's possible that you have a fluorescent or "other load" in the bathroom that is spiking the line and fooling the switch into turning on. Although I haven't experienced this with Insteon units, I've seen it with X10 and other devices. It has nothing to do with communication. Instead, it is a line spike that somehow makes it to the micro itself.

 

I currently have a Leviton fan timer (5, 10, 20, 30 min) in my master bath that can be activated by switching my closet florescent on/off. It is a rare occurrence, but it does happen. Neither is a "communicating" device.

 

Your first instinct to replace the switch is probably a good one. If the replacement acts up, I could look for troublesome loads switching on the same circuit.

 

Good thought, but not in this case. The first time the event occurred there was no activity at my house at all. I was away and the house was inactive. The other two times that I know of was not in response to any known event.

[IndyMike]

Yet another swing and a miss...

 

As luck would have it, I have the exact opposite problem occurring with a SWL dimmer. After being on for a long period of time, the unit turns will turn itself off. Re-activating the switch after the first off event will cause the unit to turn off within a couple of minutes. No communication activity logged at all. I finally removed the switch from the ISY and performed a factory reset - still powers down after XX time.

 

Unfortunately this is in the "boss's" work area (kitchen). It's a 5 year old dimmer that has been connected to 6 dimmable PAR30 CFL's for years now. I fear that the CFL's have finally degraded the triac output of the switch. I replaced the switch with a relay unit to maintain harmony. Actually, harmony had already gone out the window during my troubleshooting (comments dealing with "foot" and "donkey"). After 30 years, she still has no sense of humor when the lights go off while she's cooking.

 

Hope you resolve your situation without duress.

[Illusion]

IM,

 

Does your SWL dimmer throw out the control command when it switches off?

 

I know Insteon devices are not supposed to turn themselves on and off and they have clearly shown themselves to be very resistant to this. Especially when compared to their X-10 ancestors.

 

I would be concerned if my light were turning itself on and off. I am down right alarmed that the device is functioning as though someone had pressed the switch. This switch does not control any other devices, but if it did it would be activating them as well.

 

I would be very interested if anyone else has seen this. Not just where the devices is incorrectly turned on or off, but where the device reports it has physically been switched on or off when it has not been touched, which is what is happening in my case.

[IndyMike]

Illusion,

 

I do not think our problems are related. My unit simply shuts down after a time and does not transmit anything when it does. I attribute this to years of being connected to dimmable CFL's. They may be dimmable, but they cause 40V spikes on the line when they switch.

 

I have never seen an instance where an Insteon unit would register a paddle press when no one is around. At the same time, I don't monitor my switches via email notification.

 

Again, your original instinct was probably a good one. Call SH and explain the problem. Even if the unit is out of warranty, they may be interested in determining what is going on.

[Illusion]

Yep, it just happened again. Switch is going to get replaced.

 

I had not thought about calling Smarthome about this one. I will do that. Good idea.

[LeeG]

Illusion

 

An item just came up on the Powerhome forum with a similar situation. A light is turning On with no physical switch interaction. The trace shows the Group Cleanup was sent by the device (at least the PLM message would indicate that) but the initial Group Broadcast message is missing. Did you get any Event Viewer traces of your situation that showed actual device message traffic?

 

I've asked what type of device and firmware level.

 

Lee

[Illusion]

Sorry. No event trace from me. Happens way too infrequently to capture. I do not leave my computer on.

[Illusion]

WOW!!! Replaced switch. And it just happened again today with new switch. I am stumped. I do not know what to do from here. Ideas?

 

BTW, I did contact Smarthome about this issue. The reply was that this is not something they have ever heard of either. Clearly something else is going on here.

[LeeG]

Illusion

 

So far conclusions have been based on external observation and assumption. Time for some objective analysis with an event trace.

 

Lee

[Illusion]

And the only way to get an event trace is to leave a computer on 24/7 running with Admin Console running and Event Viewer window open, right?

[LeeG]

I believe that is true. The window can be minimized (I think) but the Admin Console is the application that is creating the Event Viewer trace based on information the ISY/PLM is passing out to the Admin Console.

 

There are other things that can be done. Change the type of load being controlled by the switch. Disable any Program that has any interaction with that switch. Play with the responder link records in the switch to eliminate various control paths to the switch. Probably more things like that available if one thinks about it more.

 

The only way to get some objective information is to trace the activity. The situation on the other forum where a trace was available, it showed a Group command sequence that can only happen when the paddle is physically pressed. I am assuming that is not the case here. Do you have video recording capability that can be shifted into that room when no one is home. Perhaps observing how the lights turn On, slow ramp up, immediate to full on, etc might provide more clues.

[Illusion]

I have borrowed a laptop and it is now running the event viewer 24/7. I will post back data when/if the event happens again.

[Illusion]

Okay! Here she is. The event capture of the switch truning itself on and the ISY reporting that the switch itself has been activated via paddle press.

 

Key:

15.72.63 Light at significant neighbor's house tied to my ISY

0A.3E.E6 Outdoor motion sensor

0C.FB.F5 The problem bathroom vanity Switchlinc.

 

 

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:40 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 15.72.63 00.00.01 C7 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:40 PM : [standard-Group][15.72.63-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:40 PM : [  15 72 63 1]      DOF   0

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:40 PM : [  15 72 63 1]       ST   0

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:41 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 15.72.63 13.24.AA 42 13 01    LTOFFRR(01)

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:41 PM : [standard-Cleanup][15.72.63-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 00.00.01 C7 11 01    LTONRR (01)

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [standard-Group][0A.3E.E6-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [   A 3E E6 1]      DON   1

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 00.00.01 C7 11 01    LTONRR (01)

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [standard-Group][0A.3E.E6-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : Duplicate: ignored

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 00.00.01 C7 11 01    LTONRR (01):  Process Message: failed

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [standard-Group][0A.3E.E6-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 13.24.AA 41 11 01    LTONRR (01)

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.3E.E6-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 0C.FB.F5 13.24.AA 41 11 01    LTONRR (01)

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [standard-Cleanup][0C.FB.F5-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [   C FB F5 1]      DON   1

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [   C FB F5 1]       ST 255

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 13.24.AA 47 11 01    LTONRR (01)

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.3E.E6-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

[LeeG]

The Motion Sensor signaled motion

 

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 00.00.01 C7 11 01 LTONRR (01)

 

After the expected two additional Group Broadcast messages an expected Group Cleanup is received from the motion sensor

 

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 13.24.AA 41 11 01 LTONRR (01)

 

Then the unexpected Group Cleanup from the vanity switch. This message looks like a valid Group Cleanup from a paddle press except the initial Group Broadcast that should have come first is missing

 

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0C.FB.F5 13.24.AA 41 11 01 LTONRR (01)

 

Then a second Group Cleanup comes from the motion sensor which is both unexpected and the max hop count is three. The max hop count going up would indicate the motion sensor did not get back the expected ACK to the first Group Cleanup and did a retry.

 

Tue 12/14/2010 02:19:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.3E.E6 13.24.AA 47 11 01 LTONRR (01)

 

The problem here is the first retry would normally have a max hop count of 2 followed by another retry with a max hop count of 3. Much more analysis needs to be done here but the Group Cleanup with the vanity from address might be the motion sensor first retry attempt that was presented incorrectly. ONLY A GUESS AT THIS POINT. Since the vanity switch is new I don’t see this as a switch failure even though the message with the vanity address looks valid (except for missing Group Broadcast that should have preceded it).

 

The ISY did what it should have because it received a message indicating the vanity turned on. It can be valid for a Group Broadcast not to arrive first. That is why Insteon follows up with the Group Cleanup as part of the Group protocol.

 

This will take some time to think about the possibilities.

 

The event trace should be continued to get another failure to see if the pattern is consistent.