ICON dimmers ability to ramp up faster than 2sec ?

[ELA]

I use mostly switchlincs for their higher current. I figured I could get away with a couple of Icon dimmers where I knew I had light loads.

 

Now I have become unhappy with the slow 2 second turn on ramp rate for a front hall closet light. I need it to ramp up faster -which the switch does not allow for, at least locally.

 

I have read posts where some people have different versions of icons and that some do allow a change to the local ramp rate - but mine do not.

 

Anyone know of a trick using a scene or program with the ISY99 to allow the icon to ramp up faster?

 

I tried both using only the local switch- attempting to control itself with no luck. I would rather not have to include some other device.

 

Or do I have to upgrade these ICONs to switchlincs?

[fitzpatri8]

Press the On paddle twice, quickly, to generate a Fast On response instead of a regular On--then it'll turn it on 100% instantly.

[apostolakisl]

How old are your icon switches? I originally had ones that were about 5 years old which I replaced with new ones because of the paddle issue.

 

Anyway, both the old ones and new ones had fully adjustable ramp rates just like the 2476d's. (.1 second to 9 minutes).

[fitzpatri8]

How old are your icon switches? I originally had ones that were about 5 years old which I replaced with new ones because of the paddle issue.

 

Anyway, both the old ones and new ones had fully adjustable ramp rates just like the 2476d's. (.1 second to 9 minutes).

 

Fully adjustable using the ISY Admin Console to adjust the 'local' settings, not using a double-tap of the Set button, right? I don't think any version allowed use of the Set button.

[apostolakisl]

Sorry, I had the ISY from the beginning so I don't really know about programming them manually. The ISY for sure lets you set the local ramp rate.

[ELA]

Thanks for the responses.

Of course I know you can double click but that is not what I want. That works for me but not for occasional users.

 

When you say they are adjustable using ISY99I for local ramp rate I have found that not to be true. As I said I have read other posts where some people have older units that do adjust but the current versions do not. These are newly purchased, I will need to check the version.

I have tried multiple times to adjust using the ISY99I and the ramp rate does not change.

[apostolakisl]

I have 15 icon dimmers which are all less than 3 months old and all have the full .1 sec to 9 minute range. I have most of them set to .5 seconds and they indeed turn on at .5 sec. I also have two set to 9 minutes in a wakeup scene and that works as well.

 

These switches are all replacements for a previous set that was 5 years old and had the exact same settings and worked the same.

[ELA]

apostolakisl,

And this is why I am totally confused now. Some people say they are adjustable and others say they are not?

I went to the Smarthome site and if you look at the Icon Dimmer model # 2876DB specs under:

Adjustable ramp rate:

it states "no- 2 second only"????

 

and my experience says this is the case. I can set the on level locally no problem but no ramp rate adj. I have tried the air gap after setting and still no luck.

 

So is this a matter of rev levels or what?

[Brian H]

It could be the hardware or firmware revision.

Maybe you can compare them and see if there are differences.

 

I have a very early revision 2876D and theory was they where reworked 2476D Switchlincs.

Mine says 600 watts not 300 watts.

Has a green LED not an Amber.

Is a hardware revision 1.1. Date code 0551. Firmware revision not known.

 

Also like the early 2476D SwitchLincs. I can locally set the ramp rate from 0.1 seconds to 9 seconds with the set button. I believe it can be set to up to 8 minutes with software, though I never tried it.

[apostolakisl]

My original set of switches were the ones that had the green led and the mislabeled 600w (and yes it is for sure mislabeled as I made the mistake of putting 500w on one and it burned it). They started having the paddle issue so I replaced them

 

The new ones are the latest batch with the beeper.

 

Does ISY give you the option to use other ramp rates and that fails to actually affect the rate or does ISY not give you the option at all?

 

No doubt about it though, you can't mistake a 9 minute ramp rate for 2 seconds, so it for sure allows changes.

[ELA]

The ISY allows you to adjust the ramp rate but the 2876DB does not accept it.

 

I will check the versions when I get home to access that info.

 

I am also going to experiment with other controllers abilty to set the ramp rate to the 2876DB in a scene. For some reason I felt that might work, only the local ramp rate that did not.

[Brian H]

So setting the light to between 90% and 100% and then tapping the set button twice fast. Does not set it to .1 sec.?

[ELA]

Update: I replaced the Icon dimmer that I was unhappy with - with a new Switchlinc Dimmer to get an adjustable ramp rate.

The new switch works fine locally. I find that the default 2 second rate set locally is just fine on this switch. Now I am thinking that the old ICon switch must have been ramping at more like 4 seconds???? I will test that later.

 

I NOW HAVE A NEW PROBLEM -

I used the "replace with" option in the ISY99 to replace the old ICon with the new Switchlinc.

Now the new switch does not work in any of the scenes I had in the old ICon?

When I look at the link table the links are there.

When I run a scene test it says it completed correctly but the Switchlinc in question did not activate.

 

I posted in another persons thread on installing with a Device V0.0. I did that with this new switch by mistake (manual install rather than auto discover). I find it hard to believe that the firmware version could affect the scene issue or is that possible?

 

I turned on the event viewer when a scene was run to turn on three lamps to a very dim setting.

 

below is the event viewer report:

(new switchlinc is 16.4B.3C)

I am confused as to why it sent LTOFFRR()

instead of LTONRR() ??

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:47 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 13 13 00 06

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:47 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.4B.3C 0F.9E.56 61 13 FF LTOFFRR(FF)

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:47 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][16.4B.3C-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:48 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.4A.9F 0F.9E.56 61 13 13 LTOFFRR(13)

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:48 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][16.4A.9F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:48 PM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:48 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 03.E6.91 0F.9E.56 62 13 13 LTOFFRR(13)

 

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:48 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][03.E6.91-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

 

----- Home Mood Lighting Test Results -----

[succeeded] Dinette Light (16 4A 9F 1)

[succeeded] Front Hall Light (16 4B 3C 1)

[succeeded] Kitchen Light (3 E6 91 1)

----- Home Mood Lighting Test Results -----

Sun 01/23/2011 06:34:55 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.13 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

[ELA]

I reviewed the scene test in the ISY manual and I see that a scene test sends the OFF command only. I was supposed to have turned them on first. My mistake.

I will rerun the test.

[Brian H]

What firmware version are you using?

2.8.8 changed the scene test to turn On the scene then turn it back Off. Then test the modules in the scene.

[LeeG]

The Scene On is not traced in the Event Viewer during a Scene test. Actually the Event Trace is cleared after the Scene On so all the Event Trace shows is the Scene Off even though an On is issued first.

[Sub-Routine]

I reviewed the scene test in the ISY manual and I see that a scene test sends the OFF command only. I was supposed to have turned them on first. My mistake.

I will rerun the test.

 

The Test is valid whether it send an On or Off command. If the devices respond they have received the signal.

 

Do you have any CFLs or LEDs in the scene that may create noise when turned on? The Beta firmware tests for this by turning the scene On before the test.

 

I am leaning towards a bad device. Can you link the device manually?

 

 

Rand

[ELA]

Here is a link to a response at the end of this other thread.

Sorry I posted in two spots. I will try to stay on track in this thread.

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=5803

 

Not a bad (brand new) switch. It works fine now after manually fixing the scenes.

 

I am running 2.7.15. I am intending to upgrade but have been hesitant to introduce any new issues just yet.

 

Can everything be blamed on noise??? I understand why you ask and that noise can be a problem in many instances but

I really doubt it in this case.

I actually set up my Oscope last night and monitored the signals. Very little noise (no CFLS in this house

 

Worst noise comes about when the switchlincs themselves are on very dim.

Signal strength was excellent since the PLM is only about 15ft from the switch in question and on the very same circuit.

 

I do appreciate your input. What a lot of work this Insteon is turning out to be

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello ELA,

 

First of all, no, not everything can be noise related but, in a majority of cases that we have seen, some type interference is usually the culprit.

 

As far as the replace function for 2477DH, I do apologize. It has been fixed:

1. Please clear your Java cache (make sure all browsers are turned off)

2. Go to http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/2.8.11/admin.jnlp

 

This version of Admin Console should allow you to replace your existing SWL with 2477DH.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ELA]

Thanks Michel,

 

I was replacing with a 2476D.

 

I will upgrade to the latest firmware anyways.

I was waiting to get through all the current issues I have been having before upgrading and I think I am there now.

[ELA]

Update: As per this thread I had replaced an ICON 2876D with a Switchlinc 2476D because

I wanted an adjustable ramp rate.

 

I was unable to adjust the ICON ramp rate via the ISY99 or locally. The ramp rate was too slow for my taste and I thought it was at the default of 2 seconds.

 

After the replacement The 2476D satisfied my needs but showed me that the ICON removed was really operating at a ramp rate of 4.5 seconds. This is why I thought it was unacceptably slow.

 

Last night I performed a FACTORY RESET on this ICON unit and relinked it to the ISY99 (only linked to PLM).

Now I an adjust the Ramp rate all day long via the ISY99. It does require an air gap after a change but it works now.

 

This unit must have gotten confused somewhere along the line.

I have read, as it has been stated in this forum many times, that these units do get hung up and require a Factory boot sometimes!

Well now I have a spare

 

For reference this ICON is a hardware v5.1 and firmware v.39. Date code 1014.

 

I will be just a little hestitant to add this unit back into any scenes in the future due to the run a round it gave me this time.

I ran several Event logs on the unit as I installed it for test purposes and will review them now that I am a little up to speed on message protocol. I want to see if there are any suspect commands or rejections from this switch that might signal a potential future failure.

 

Here is a partial of the log from adding it to the ISY and exercising it.

Can you tell me why I might have got the "I2 data commands do not work". Is this normal when adding this type of switch?

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:18 PM : ---- Initializing the linked devices ----

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:18 PM : ---- All Linked Devices are now initialized ----

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:18 PM : ---- Add remaining devices ----

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:18 PM : [ 15 55 0 1] Removing all links

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:42 PM : [15 55 0 1 ] i2 data transfer commands do not work. Reverting to i1

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:44 PM : [ 15 55 0 1] Adding device to ISY

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:44 PM : [Old Front Entrance Sw - Obsol] Start : Adding device to ISY

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:44 PM : [Old Front Entrance Sw - Obsol] Finish : Adding device to ISY was Successful

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:01:48 PM : [ 15 55 0 1] Device added to ISY

[LeeG]

ELA

 

It is common for some Insteon devices not to support the Extended ALDB command to manage the link database. Depends on the level of the internal PLM. Also the ISY uses the I1 Peek/Poke method anyway unless it is a Motion Sensor or TriggerLinc which do not support Peek/Poke.

 

The Event Viewer requires the detail provided by the Device Communications Events option to see the actual commands issued and results to determine what actually happened with the ALDB command.

 

If you post the device add with the Device Communications Events option selected I can interpret. Usually what is seen is the ALDB command will get the SD response but not the ED Extended response when the command is not supported.

 

Lee

[ELA]

Lee,

What is the " Device Communications Events option" ? is that the Level selection?

I try to always use Level 3 but may have had the default on to start with. I did record some level 3 info here. They show the peek and poke you spoke of:

 

 

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:23 PM : [ 15 55 0 1] RR 26

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:23 PM : [15 55 0 1 ] Memory : Write dbAddr=0x0021 [1A]

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:23 PM : [15 55 0 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'Old Front Entrance Sw - Obsol'

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:23 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.55.00 0F 28 00 06 SET-MSB(00)

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:24 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.55.00 0F.9E.56 2B 28 00 SET-MSB(00)

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:24 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.55.00-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:24 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.55.00 0F 2B 21 06 PEEK (21)

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:24 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.55.00 0F.9E.56 2B 2B 1C PEEK (1C)

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:24 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.55.00-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:24 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.55.00 0F 29 1A 06 POKE (1A)

 

Sun 01/30/2011 04:04:25 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.55.00 0F.9E.56 2B 29 1A POKE (1A)

 

I take it peek and poke are direct memory reads and writes?

 

If needed I will rerun the add as you suggested once I understand the option selection you speak of.

[Brian H]

If your Event viewer has the numerical choice it is an earlier version of firmware.

The later versions the numbers where changed to text choices.

Device Communications Event is what use to be #3

[ELA]

Thanks Brian,

 

I have not had any new problems in the past week so I am finally going to update my ISY in the next couple of days.