Venstar problem: return to Program Auto - wrong setpoints

[jtara92101]

I'm having a problem using a Venstar T-1800 with "home" and "away" programs.

 

I want to use the Venstar's built-in "Program Auto" mode when I am NOT away. Rather than setting a daily schedule to set-back the thermostat during the day (I work at home) I've set it up for "comfort". A bit warmer in the morning for waking/shower, etc. But set-back for non-occupancy is handled by the "away" program.

 

The away part works fine. The program switches the thermostat to AUTO mode, then sets the cool setpoint to 90 and heat setpoint to 50.

 

Home is where I have the problem. I've tried every possible order and delays, and the setpoint is "sticky" when setting the mode to Program Auto.

 

First, I thought I ought to reset the default AUTO temperature. That is, I don't want to leave it at 50/90, in case I might want to manually switch to AUTO mode at the thermostat, I'd want a reasonable default value for setpoints. (So, restore AUTO to the previously-programmed setting.)

 

So, I tried going to AUTO (in case it was changed manually), change the setpoints to 68/78, then switch to PROGRAM AUTO. But the setpoints remain 68/78, not the appropriate PROGRAM AUTO setpoints! If I DON'T reprogram the setpoints to 68/78, then it's even worse - they will remain 50/90, even though the thermostat DOES change to PROGRAM AUTO mode, and shows the correct time period.

 

Manually hitting the MODE button on the thermostat so that it cycles back around to PROGRAM AUTO corrects the problem - it changes the setpoints to those for the current time period.

 

I tried cycling the mode through OFF in the program (AUTO, change setpoints to 68/78 to reset the AUTO setpoints, OFF, PROGRAM AUTO) and that still doesn't fix it - the setpoints remain 68/78.

 

The only way I can get it to go to PROGRAM AUTO with the correct setpoints from the thermostat's program is to manually use the MODE button.

[Sub-Routine]

Hi jtara92101,

 

I'm not sure I understand the issue you see.

 

One thing I know about the thermostats is that sending it commands too quickly seem to confuse the device. I have found the best way to change many settings is to create scenes for the thermostat and call the scenes On.

 

Rand

[jtara92101]

I'm not sure I understand the issue you see.

 

The problem is that when I use an isy program to change the thermostat to AUTO PROGRAM mode, after previously having changed the setpoints while in AUTO, HEAT, or COOL modes, it does not switch to the programmed setpoints. The display shows that it is in AUTO PROGRAM, and shows the current time period (morning, day, evening, night). But the setpoints are those that were previously set by the program.

 

In order to recall the setpoints, I have to manually cycle through the modes using the MODE button until it is in AUTO PROGRAM again. Then, it will recall the correct setpoints.

 

The isy mode change is obviously NOT doing exactly the same thing as using the MODE button!

 

I just checked to see if the thermostat exhibits this behavior when being controlled manually: it does not.

 

If it put it in AUTO and bump the setpoint a few degrees, then hit the MODE button to change it to AUTO PROGRAM, it does get the correct set-point that was previously programmed into the current time period.

 

 

One thing I know about the thermostats is that sending it commands too quickly seem to confuse the device. I have found the best way to change many settings is to create scenes for the thermostat and call the scenes On.

 

I had read that on this forum. So, I put 2 second delays in-between each setting, but that didn't help. I will try the "scene" technique, though - thanks!

 

Now, there is an obvious work-around: I would need to duplicate the schedule in an isy program, and change the setpoints to those for the current schedule. I guess that should not be done if it's say, less than 10 minutes to a schedule change (because the clocks won't be perfectly in sync. So, if less than 10 minutes, just let the pending time-period change handle the set-point change.)

 

I could also use a similar program to "advance" to the next time period. That is, let's say it is evening, and I am going to bed early. I could have the "goodnight" program change the setpoints to the "night" settings. Eventually, the "night" program will come along and take over (with the same set-points).

 

I think this bug has probably been missed because most people are managing the thermostat completely from the isy, and not using AUTO PROGRAM.

[jtara92101]

Unfortunately, using a scene isn't going to help anything. There's actually NO WAY to switch to PROGRAM AUTO mode with a scene WITHOUT setting a heat and cool setpoint!

 

It looks like there might be a fundamental disconnect between how the thermostat works (in PROGRAM AUTO) and the isy interface.

 

PROGRAM AUTO and settings setpoints = DOES NOT COMPUTE!

[Michel Kohanim]

jtara92101,

 

What happens if you query the thermostat from ISY. Will it then compute?

 

The fundamental problem is this: there's only one interface to get the cool/heat setpoints from the thermostat. This is irrespective of the mode and therefore we are 100% reliant on what the thermostat sends back when queried.

 

If the query fixes the problem, then we can add a query to the code after you change the mode from program auto to something else. If it does not, then we are basically out of luck.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[jtara92101]

Not sure just when you want it to query the thermostat. I'll experiment, but not sure where to put the Query. After setting Program Auto?

 

The problem is not GETTING set-points from the thermostat. It's that when it is switched into PROGRAM AUTO mode by the isy, it doesn't recall the stored set-points. It just keeps any set-points that were previously set by the isy. That is, the problem is NOT that the ISY is seeing the wrong set-points - it's that they are never recalled from the stored settings when going to PROGRAM AUTO.

 

When switching to PROGRAM AUTO manually, the set-points are recalled correctly.

 

EDIT: A Query after switching to PROGRAM AUTO using an ISY program returns the set-points previously set by the isy - NOT the set-points programmed for the time period.

 

If I manually cycle through the modes using the MODE button, the correct set-points are restored, and in fact the correct set-points appear in the admin console, without a need to query.

 

I'm guessing the problem here is the Smarthome adapter. It simply does not do the same thing when selecting the mode through the interface as when you actually hit the MODE button.

[Sub-Routine]

Hi jtara92101,

 

I did some experiments today. Apparently when a change is made to a setpoint, whether Heat, Cool, Auto, that change carries into Auto as well as Program Auto.

 

A change made in Auto carries over to Heat, Cool, Program Auto.

 

Changes made in Program Auto carry over to Heat, Cool, Auto.

 

You are correct that Program Auto when called from an Insteon device does not use the stored settings for the time period if any changes have been made in any of the other modes.

 

I don't think there is any way for the ISY to change that behavior. Other than to set the scene to Auto Program with the Heat and Cool points you desire depending on the time (as you mentioned).

 

Feature or Bug?

 

Rand

 

Not sure just when you want it to query the thermostat. I'll experiment, but not sure where to put the Query. After setting Program Auto?

 

The problem is not GETTING set-points from the thermostat. It's that when it is switched into PROGRAM AUTO mode by the isy, it doesn't recall the stored set-points. It just keeps any set-points that were previously set by the isy. That is, the problem is NOT that the ISY is seeing the wrong set-points - it's that they are never recalled from the stored settings when going to PROGRAM AUTO.

 

When switching to PROGRAM AUTO manually, the set-points are recalled correctly.

 

EDIT: A Query after switching to PROGRAM AUTO using an ISY program returns the set-points previously set by the isy - NOT the set-points programmed for the time period.

 

If I manually cycle through the modes using the MODE button, the correct set-points are restored, and in fact the correct set-points appear in the admin console, without a need to query.

 

I'm guessing the problem here is the Smarthome adapter. It simply does not do the same thing when selecting the mode through the interface as when you actually hit the MODE button.

[andyf0]

I have this exact problem. Definately a bug, just don't know where.

 

If you set Program Auto the thermostat should fetch it's programmed setpoints for that time of day.

 

Is the console interefering with that behavior somehow by try to set it's own setpoints?

 

Also, just changing from Program Auto to Heat and back to Program Auto can change my heat setpoint (displayed in the console) to 16 degrees. Most of the time waiting a while or performing a query will correct it, other times the setpoint in the thermostat will get set wrong. I even saw the Heat setpoint showing "0F" one time on the Thermostat when I switched to Program Auto from the console.