apostolakisl Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I had about 15 icon switches that went south on me with the paddle issue. SH RMA'd them about 6 months ago with new ones. The new ones work fine except periodically they need to be power cycled. They lock-up. This happens with them either on, dimmed, or off. By lock-up I mean that they simply stop responding to button presses or insteon commands. If I pull the reset tab for a couple seconds it fixes them. I have had this happen to about half of the switches at one time or another with some switches having done it multiple times. They are the 2876db firmware 39, hardware v5.1. I also have some of the icon relays and have never had one of those lock-up. Has anyone experienced this problem? Am I going to have to RMA them out again? The ones that get used the most seem to be the ones that lock up the most. I have several of the switches where they almost never get pushed and primarily function on Insteon commands, they don't lock-up.
wrj0 Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 I'm curious if you have had similar lock up problems with any non-Icon switches?
apostolakisl Posted May 10, 2011 Author Posted May 10, 2011 No. I have about 50 of the 2476d/s's all in the version 4's and 5's. None has done this. Many of these switches are operated multiple times a day. The 2476db's are mostly in the kid's rooms. Perhaps the kids are, shall we say, hard on them, but I wouldn't think that a "lock-up" would be a symptom of pushing the button hard. It's not like the switch shuts down, since it can actually lock up while on or dimmed.
wrj0 Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 Thanks for the info. I had considered purchase of some icon switches, but will likely avoid them based on your experience, given my wife is also very hard on switches.
nowandthen Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 I too have had the lock up problem on a couple of icon V5.1 switches as well. Maybe I'll just avoid them from now on. I suppose this really belongs in the Smarthome forum. Update: no kidding not more than 15 minutes after posting this, I go out to the garage and one of the Icon 2876DBs is locked up. I pull out the set button and push it back in and it works again. The locked up switch is V5.1. I have three V5.1s in the garage along with one V5.3. Does anyone know if they fixed the lockup issue with the later version? I rarely use the switches manually, they run off motion sensors. The switch in question is linked to another Icon switch in the garage as well as a motion sensor and 2 KPLs in the house.
apostolakisl Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 I too have had the lock up problem on a couple of icon V5.1 switches as well. Maybe I'll just avoid them from now on. I suppose this really belongs in the Smarthome forum. Update: no kidding not more than 15 minutes after posting this, I go out to the garage and one of the Icon 2876DBs is locked up. I pull out the set button and push it back in and it works again. The locked up switch is V5.1. I have three V5.1s in the garage along with one V5.3. Does anyone know if they fixed the lockup issue with the later version? I rarely use the switches manually, they run off motion sensors. The switch in question is linked to another Icon switch in the garage as well as a motion sensor and 2 KPLs in the house. I just returned one of the 5.1's that was locking up the most for the latest version (5.3?). I'll see what happens. It seems like the lockup tends to happen when local actions are taken coincident with PLC's. I don't know for sure? SH of course denied any such problem being reported.
nowandthen Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I just returned one of the 5.1's that was locking up the most for the latest version (5.3?). I'll see what happens. It seems like the lockup tends to happen when local actions are taken coincident with PLC's. I don't know for sure? SH of course denied any such problem being reported. My lockup(s) did not occur with local action coincident with PLC's, I almost never control the switches manually.
apostolakisl Posted February 11, 2012 Author Posted February 11, 2012 I just returned one of the 5.1's that was locking up the most for the latest version (5.3?). I'll see what happens. It seems like the lockup tends to happen when local actions are taken coincident with PLC's. I don't know for sure? SH of course denied any such problem being reported. My lockup(s) did not occur with local action coincident with PLC's, I almost never control the switches manually. Yeah, maybe just a coincidence. Most of the lockups I discovered just walking by and I really donn't know exactly when it happened. The worst offender was the pantry and it didn't become bad until after I started using an x10 motion sensor to trigger it. I have the icon switches in my kids bedrooms and those switches are mostly manually controlled and they only very rarely lockup.
IndyMike Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Hi Lou, I just caught the fact that you are only having problems with the Icon dimmers (relays are OK). I have had problems when using dimmers with dimmable CFL's. The capacitive loading from the CFL's causes sizable spiking on the line which can lockup the switch. I've had this happen with all varieties of dimmers (SWL, KPL, ICON) depending on the connected load. The line spikes also increase depending on the dim level. At around 50%, the dimmed output will be switching at the AC Peak and generating maximum spiking. If your kids are manually activating the switches, the may be operating in this region. I'm not sure if you are using loads with capacitive input. If you are, you could try changing the load to isolate the problem. I also do not know if the V5.1 Icons are more susceptible to line spikes. I only have one and it's not connected to a load. The following examples show spiking from a single 20W Dimmable CFL. Adding addition CFL's to the circuit will increase the capacitive loading (parrallel caps) and increase the spiking. I've seen line spikes up to 40Vp-p. Output of a KPL dimmer at 50%. Phase dimming is switching the triac output at the AC line peak. Input to the KPL dimmer showing 18V p-p spikes referred to the line at the triac switch point.
apostolakisl Posted February 11, 2012 Author Posted February 11, 2012 If only I could pretend to know as much as you about this stuff. All these pretty graphs and stuff. However, all of the switches that have locked up are running incandescent bulbs. None of my icon relays (same vintage) have ever locked up. The relays are running bathroom fans. The ones that lock up the most are used the most. So, crazy idea here, it has something to do with being used! In other words, they don't lockup just sitting there "idleing". None of my 2476d's have every locked up. By far, most of my installation is 2476d's (maybe about 50 of them). I have very few CFL's in my house. Lots of LED's and incandescents. I installed the replacement icon switch yesterday. So far, no lockups.
IndyMike Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Lou, Those "pretty graphs" are meaningless if you are using incandescent bulbs. I re-read your original post and saw where the lockup problem was occurring with the dimmers off. That pretty much rules out the local load. What else to you have on the bedroom circuit? Any florescents in the closets? I have a number of small florescent strips in closets that spike the line horribly when turned on. The one in my master closet will sometimes activate my leviton timer (bath fan) when turned on. If there is something elsewhere on the circuit causing spiking, it would still seem to imply that something has changed in the Icons to make them more susceptible. I only have 1 of the V5.1 Icons installed and it has no connected load. To date, I haven't noted a problem (no comm errors during the 3 am poll).
apostolakisl Posted February 12, 2012 Author Posted February 12, 2012 I barely have any flourescent bulbs at all in the house. None on that circuit. Based on the fact that the more the switch is used, the more often it locks up, it seems that it must have something to do with local use. The new icon dimmer still has not locked up. If it goes a week with no lockups, then I will be comfortable saying that there is something in the 5.1 version.
ELA Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Hi apostolakisl, After reading this I checked and I have two ICON dimmers at hardware Rev 5.1 , Firmware V39. One of these I had removed from service not long after installing it. It had unexplained behavior and so I simply replaced it (way back before I got serious about Insteon). I changed that to a 2476D. I cannot recall all the issues but I believe the Icon did lock up once. The other unit has never given me any grief. The first unit that I removed I then retained as part of a test setup that has logged many hours of communications testing without exhibiting a lock up condition. Although in that scenario it is often powered up/down so .... ?
apostolakisl Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 My new one just locked up. It was in the "on" position when it locked up.
nowandthen Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Just to reiterate, I almost never manually control my Icon switches, one has locked up two or three times. The switch controls incandescent lights. It is linked via motion sensors so I rarely have reason to manually control it. I have three in the same j-box. The one that locks up is linked to another Icon switch and it is not the middle switch. These lights are only on for two minutes at a time, unless motion continues.
apostolakisl Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 Just to reiterate, I almost never manually control my Icon switches, one has locked up two or three times. The switch controls incandescent lights. It is linked via motion sensors so I rarely have reason to manually control it. I have three in the same j-box. The one that locks up is linked to another Icon switch and it is not the middle switch. These lights are only on for two minutes at a time, unless motion continues. Pretty much ditto to the above. It is a pantry switch, it is solo in the box, it is on a motion detector, but it is also right there where people can hit it manually. The motion detector is an x10 unit. The lights are incandescent. The motion detector is on about a two minute timer. The other switches which don't lockup nearly as often are not on motion detectors. But there are programs which turn them on as a morning alarm and turn them off if forgotten on for extended time. The also are on incandescent. They are solo in the box as far as Insteon switches. The other switches are regular decora (non-heat producing) toggles. Are you using Insteon motion detectors or x10?
nowandthen Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Are you using Insteon motion detectors or x10? Insteon, but they are the Inlinelincs with sense connected to motion sensors from the local hardware store. Insteon is sending the signal but they are not the wireless Insteon motion sensors 2420M. I use 2420M's in many other places but they don't control any Icons, they control Switchlincs without issue. Not saying motion is the culprit, just saying.
apostolakisl Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 I'm going to call SH today. I'm sure they'll say all is fine and we have some never heard of before anomaly. But it is nice to be armed with this info. I was speculating that they would say it is x10's fault, but they can't say that now.
ELA Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I was ordering some stuff today and could not find the 2876D (Icon dimmer)? Are they discontinued?
LeeG Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 They were on sale a few weeks ago. Picked up a few as spares. It did not say they were being discontinued at the time. I saw speculation a month or so ago (?) that the Icon line might be discontinued. Don't remember which forum that was posted on.
Brian H Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I did a search on the Smarthome site for 2876D and it was not found. A search for 2876DB found the Smarthome model X10WS12AI and the 2476D modules. It sure looks like it is discontinued.
ELA Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I was installing a 3-way and was going to use one switchlinc (for assured variable ramp rate) and one icon dimmer. Looks like its two switchlincs then. I asked in this post since there were questions about its reliability. I wonder if that had anything to do with them being discontinued?
apostolakisl Posted February 19, 2012 Author Posted February 19, 2012 I searched "icon" on sh website. The 2876sb (relay version) is listed at regular price. They also have the wall wart lamp and appliance models at a steep discount. So it kind of does look like they are clearing them out, except for the 2876sb.
Brian H Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Or they are rebadging them for their new X10 line of products. My early Smarthome X10LM465 is a Icon Lamp Module with the Icon labels removed and new model label added.. My early Smarthome X10AM466 is an Icon On Off module with the Icon labels removed and the new model label added.
Teken Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Or they are rebadging them for their new X10 line of products.My early Smarthome X10LM465 is a Icon Lamp Module with the Icon labels removed and new model label added.. My early Smarthome X10AM466 is an Icon On Off module with the Icon labels removed and the new model label added. Brian H, Was there any way to have the unit display the Insteon ID and communicate via Insteon protocol?? Teken . . .
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