Different KPL communication issues

[Zellarman]

My Insteon system has been in place for a few years now, and I finally completed the conversion to include my last 3 switches just the other day. The KPL works just fine w/ regard to controlling other Insteon Devices and scenes, all programming via my ISY goes flawlessly, and I haven't received the message "cant communicate with". My issue is that the turning on or off of any of the buttons doesn't register with my ISY, the interesting (confusing or whatever) thing is that the holding of any of the buttons appropriately registers a dimmed level with the ISY.

[LeeG]

Zellarman

 

Can you clarify the situation. With ISY Programs working it would seem the ISY would have to be aware of button presses. Is it the actual pressing of ANY/ALL of the KeypadLinc buttons do not trigger programs, do not show a status change in the Admin Console, do not react to Program directive to turn On/Off, etc.

 

If nothing in the ISY is aware of a button press run Tools | Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table for KeypadLinc and see if there are

 

E2 01 plm address

E2 02 plm address

E2 03 plm address

.

E2 08 plm address

 

link records in the KeypadLinc. If a 6 button KPL the highest would be E2 05 ......

 

Thanks

 

Lee

[Zellarman]

Can you clarify the situation. With ISY Programs working it would seem the ISY would have to be aware of button presses. Is it the actual pressing of ANY/ALL of the KeypadLinc buttons do not trigger programs, do not show a status change in the Admin Console, do not react to Program directive to turn On/Off, etc.

Lee

Lee, thanks for the quick response. Sorry for the mis-communication on my part, when I said programming, I meant

the initial set-up of the switch via the ISY. To further clarify, the ISY (as far as I can tell) is not aware of any of the button presses, press and release that is, it does report back an appropriate percentage level when the buttons are held, (this is what confuses me) Simple programs set up to occur w/ button presses do not trigger and again, the ISY is not aware of the button presses. However, I did create a scene with the buttons in it, and they do turn on and off when triggering the scene from my ISY.

 

I'm unable to attach the link file .xml you instructed me to run through diagnostics. PM me with your e-mail if you want to see the file and I'll send it to you.

[LeeG]

Zellarman

 

Did the Show Device Links Table display contain the link records I described?

 

The symptoms suggest the links have been lost/corrupted in the KeypadLinc. The link records are required for the KPL to send to the PLM and there are a set of A2 records in the PLM we will look for if the KPL link records are there.

 

The Bright/Dim message sequence is sent on the powerline in the blind, not to any specific responder device address. That is the only way all responders can Bright/Dim simultaneously. On/Off requires functional link records in both the PLM and the KeypadLinc. Bright/Dim does not have that requirement since the Bright/Dim messages are sent in the blind.

 

The XML files are very hard to evaluate as all the values are in decimal. I prefer just to know if the KPL Show display has the records described.

 

Lee

[Zellarman]

I was playing around some more, it turns out that the press and hold to a percentage doesn't report back to the ISY as reliably as I had thought. I find it odd that the KPL responds to the ISY, but not the other way around. Do the modems have a more powerful transmission than KPL's, if that's the case then I could at least understand my problem.

[LeeG]

"I find it odd that the KPL responds to the ISY, but not the other way around."

 

For the ISY to be aware of KPL button presses there must be correct link records in both the KPL and the PLM as the KPL uses Scene (Group) messages to communicate the button press. If the primary KPL load button is being turned On/Off from the Admin Console Direct commands are used which require NO link records to function. If KPL buttons are being turned On/Off from the Admin Console using Scenes a completely different set of link records are being used.

 

There could certainly be a comm problem but the existence of the link records must be verified before thinking about a comm problem.

 

EDIT: no, all Insteon devices have the same powerline signal strength when messages leave the device.

[Zellarman]

I checked the device links table, and there are the E2 1, 2...8 with the PLM address as you suggested I check for, similiarly there are PLM links A2 1,2....8 with the devices address.

 

Thinking about this further, this circuit happens to be protected by a GFI breaker, unlike all (correction most) other circuits in my home that have Insteon devices on them, I guess I already answered my question when I corrected myself, but I'll ask anyway if that could have something to do with it. I wired the house myself, and happen to also know that this is the furthest device from my panel, and thus the longest distance for the signal to travel, but it's still a small home, and we know they're making it in one direction.

[LeeG]

I have an ICON Relay on my dock which is powered through a GFCI breaker with no problem. Been using that setup for years. Don't know if all GFCI breakers are created equal. With good link records in both devices it would indicate a comm problem Are there other devices/appliances on that circuit that could be interfering, cell phone charger, CFL/LED lights, some flat screen TVs, PC/UPS, etc.

[Zellarman]

There are no devices I think would cause interference. As part of this last installation of devices, I did include a dual band lamp linc dimmer, on this same circuit, but since I have the original RF phase couplers (not access points) and no other RF devices I don't think there's anything for it to communicate with. Looks like it may be time to purchase a dual band switch linc.

[Brian H]

You are using the 2442 SignalLinc RF couplers with the external antenna?

 

Since the Dual Band Devices now use 915MHz and the old 2442 SignalLinc RF used 904 MHz. It maybe possible not seeing each others RF signals. Maybe causing problems.

[Zellarman]

You are using the 2442 SignalLinc RF couplers with the external antenna?

Yes

Since the Dual Band Devices now use 915MHz and the old 2442 SignalLinc RF used 904 MHz. It maybe possible not seeing each others RF signals. Maybe causing problems.

I could understand it not helping any as I had said, but why would you say it may be causing problems?

[Brian H]

I have seen mixed messages about the SignalLinc RF.

Some indicate they play nice and others found removing them made their systems better.

 

LeeG is the expert on such things.

He maybe able to straighten me out on this.

[LeeG]

I have seen the same reports from various folks that things got better when the old RF SignaLincs were removed. I have the same RF SignaLincs in place that I started with in 2005. Of course I also have a pair of Access Points for both individual device RF support (motion sensors, TriggerLincs) and phase coupling of Extended commands which the old RF SignaLinc does not do.

 

Enough folks have indicated better results when the old SignaLincs were removed that it cannot be dismissed. Like the tstat issue, some folks see the problem all the time, others never see it. Since we cannot evaluate the internals of these devices all we have to go on is observed and reported results.

[Zellarman]

A hardwired phase coupler can take the place of my two older RF signalincs?