Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Hi all I'm just getting into the programming portion of the ISY. I've installed a number of Insteon devices during a basement remodel and have begun to replace my SwitchLinc X-10 devices as they fail. I have good communication and high reliability. I programmed a simple program based on time of day to turn the outside light on at sunset+15 and off at 11:00, and that worked fine. For my second program, I want to use the H key of an 8-key KPL to turn off lights in various rooms before I head to bed. The KPL is in the hall right next to the bedroom. Right now, i have a mix of Insteon and X-10, so my thought is to use a program that says when the KPL 8 button is pressed, various Insteon devices will turn off and various X-10 house codes will be given the All Off command. Starting at a simple level, I buit a program to accomplish this for just the kitchen light (House Code K), but it does not work. Specifically the program is: If Control 'Great Room / Great Room Hall / 16.76.1A.H' is switched Off Then Send X10 'K/All Lights Off (1)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I have the H key set up in non-toggle OFF mode, but I have tried variations of that and also tried to replace the Control button with others in the house, but no luck. If I trigger the 'Run Then' command from the Program Summary page, the kitchen light turn off like they are supposed to, but I cant get the program itself to work. Any thoughts? I am on V 2.8.16.
LeeG Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 buzzhazzard Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device communications events selected (important). Press the KPL button and see if there are Insteon messages generated in the Event Viewer window. If no messages are seen there are likely communication problems between that KPL and the ISY PLM. If there are messages generated please post the messages. Lee
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 buzzhazzard Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device communications events selected (important). Press the KPL button and see if there are Insteon messages generated in the Event Viewer window. If no messages are seen there are likely communication problems between that KPL and the ISY PLM. If there are messages generated please post the messages. Lee Hi Lee Nothing showed up in the event log. Just for grins, I went through the house and activated all my switches and keypads. Nothing showed up in the event log (I did have Device Communication Events selected). That makes it sound like none of my Insteon devices are communicating with the ISY. On the other hand, I can activate all my scenes (mostly virtual 3/4-way circuits) and devices from the ISY with 100% reliability and I used the ISY to program all the switches, so I assumed all was working well. So it sounds like the ISY can communicate very reliably with my devices, but my devices are not communicating with the ISY.
LeeG Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Suggest picking one device and doing a Restore Device to see if that restores communication from the device to the ISY. With none of the devices showing status changes there may an issue with a firewall that is blocking device status changes from reaching the Admin Console. Do you know if the Admin Console ever showed device status changes.
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Suggest picking one device and doing a Restore Device to see if that restores communication from the device to the ISY. With none of the devices showing status changes there may an issue with a firewall that is blocking device status changes from reaching the Admin Console. Do you know if the Admin Console ever showed device status changes. I restored a 6-button KPL where the four small buttons were not used for anything. The Restore process shows in the event log and that process seemed to take about 20-30 seconds. I then turned the device on and then back off and that did not show up in the event log.
LeeG Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 What do the ramp rates show for the various devices?
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 What do the ramp rates show for the various devices? They are about an even split between 0.1 and 0.5 seconds. The one I restored was a switch.
LeeG Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I have no explanation for what you are describing. For a Restore Device to work but not show status changes, very odd. There are some basic things to try, unplug the PLM for 60 seconds, reboot the ISY, clear the Java cache, be sure the PLM is not plugged into a surge suppressor strip or UPS. After rebooting the ISY click on My Lighting to display a summary of all the devices. Do any show On/Off status? If they do does the status change when a button/paddle is pressed for that device. For a device to indicate a status change valid link records must exist in the device and the PLM. The Restore Device would have rewritten the link records in the device and the PLM for that particular device. Even if the other PLM link records had been erased the one device should be working. A shot in the dark would be to factory reset the PLM (not the ISY) and do a File | Restore Modem {PLM}.
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 I have no explanation for what you are describing. For a Restore Device to work but not show status changes, very odd. There are some basic things to try, unplug the PLM for 60 seconds, reboot the ISY, clear the Java cache, be sure the PLM is not plugged into a surge suppressor strip or UPS. After rebooting the ISY click on My Lighting to display a summary of all the devices. Do any show On/Off status? If they do does the status change when a button/paddle is pressed for that device. For a device to indicate a status change valid link records must exist in the device and the PLM. The Restore Device would have rewritten the link records in the device and the PLM for that particular device. Even if the other PLM link records had been erased the one device should be working. A shot in the dark would be to factory reset the PLM (not the ISY) and do a File | Restore Modem {PLM}. I'm at a loss as well. I left town this morning fora business trip so will be limited on physically being able to manipulate devices (w/o enlisting some help from the family via a phone call), but before I left home, I cleared the Java cache, and I unplugged the PLM for 60 seconds (which I believe also reboots the ISY since that is it's power source?) That seems to have made no difference. I can activate scenes and devices from my laptop via the ISY, but the devices are not talking/talking back to the ISY. I also tried the PLM restore. No effect. Finally,in playing around a bit, I created a new program that checks the status of a device, and then send me a text message, and when I run the Run (If) from the program summary tab, it does query the switch and send the text message, so the ISY must be getting some Comm from the device.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Hello buzzhazzard, May I assume that the programs in ISY DO know the correct/current status of the devices? If so, the problem is firewall related or interactions between the computer and ISY. With kind regards, Michel
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Hello buzzhazzard, May I assume that the programs in ISY DO know the correct/current status of the devices? If so, the problem is firewall related or interactions between the computer and ISY. With kind regards, Michel Hi Michel I assume the programs know, but the reason I assume that is that I am able to have my helpers at home turn various lights on and then query My Lighting (even from three states away) and it matches what they turned on. I can activate devices from my laptop, and the status updates correctly as well. I firewall issue sounds like a possibility. I have a Linksys WRT-160N if that helps. I am getting the same behavior on two different computers, so I don't think it's computer related.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Hello buzzhazard, Thank you. Do you know what firewall software you have on your computers? With kind regards, Michel
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Hello buzzhazard, Thank you. Do you know what firewall software you have on your computers? With kind regards, Michel Norton Internet Security Suite 2011
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Hello buzzhazard, Thank you. Do you know what firewall software you have on your computers? With kind regards, Michel Norton Internet Security Suite 2011 Also, it appears the the PLM restore did something. I now can see events in the Event Viewer log with Device Communication events selected. I still can't get Condition programs to work though.
LeeG Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 First problem resolved. Run the Event Viewer and press the KeypadLinc button that is expected to trigger the Program, post the event log.
Buzzhazz Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 First problem resolved. Run the Event Viewer and press the KeypadLinc button that is expected to trigger the Program, post the event log. My apologies. I think what I was viewing were events generated from the Admin console. I cleared those, and am unable to get anything to show in the Event Viewer when the device is actuated locally, so nothing seems to have changed.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 Hello buzzhazzard, I am so very sorry but I think the PLM might have lost all its links (this does happen occasionally). What you want to do is to go to Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Link table, click on start, and when completed please click on the count button. If the number is 0 or low, then the PLM has lost all its links and I do recommend replacing it. In the meantime, you could try File | Restore Modem. With kind regards, Michel
Buzzhazz Posted September 8, 2011 Author Posted September 8, 2011 Hello buzzhazzard, I am so very sorry but I think the PLM might have lost all its links (this does happen occasionally). What you want to do is to go to Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Link table, click on start, and when completed please click on the count button. If the number is 0 or low, then the PLM has lost all its links and I do recommend replacing it. In the meantime, you could try File | Restore Modem. With kind regards, Michel It showed not a single link. I tried File|Restore modem and got the same result. I guess it's shot. If the links are all missing (as they appear to be), should I still be able to control devices from the Admin console? And should my scheduled programs work? They do in both cases. (Probably dumb questions.) If I get a new one, is there a place i can reference to figure out what I need to do? Do I simply Restore using the new PLM?
Michel Kohanim Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 Hello buzzhazzard, Thanks for the update. Yes, you can still control your devices and your programs should work. And, yes, when you get a new PLM, all you have to do is to do a File | Restore Modem (PLM) and you should be done. One more question: have you ever done File | Remove Modem? If so, that explains all the issues because this function removes all the links from your PLM and restore will basically restore nothing. With kind regards, Michel
Buzzhazz Posted December 1, 2011 Author Posted December 1, 2011 Hello buzzhazzard, Thanks for the update. Yes, you can still control your devices and your programs should work. And, yes, when you get a new PLM, all you have to do is to do a File | Restore Modem (PLM) and you should be done. One more question: have you ever done File | Remove Modem? If so, that explains all the issues because this function removes all the links from your PLM and restore will basically restore nothing. With kind regards, Michel Hi Michel et al I'm resurrecting an old thread because I just received a new PLM in the mail. I unplugged the old PLM, plugged in the new, connected the Cat 5 to the ISY and powered the ISY with a new power supply (since the new PLMs don't do that apparently). I then logged onto the web interface and was given a warning that it could not communicate with the PLM and that was usually the result of a defective PLM. Figuring that this was probably the result of adding the new PLM, I went to File|Restore Modem (PLM). It failed around 30% or so twice with the message Failed Resetting the PLM [-200000/-30] Am I doing something wrong?
LeeG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 buzzhazzard Having done that very change yesterday the first error message that the PLM could not be found is terminal. I would unplug everything. Remove the cable between the PLM and Port A, check that there are not pins bent. Reconnect being sure the cable clicks in on both ends. Plug in the PLM and verify the LED lights on the PLM. Then power the ISY. Login and check Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status. It should display the PLM address and firmware level. Until this condition is obtained no sense going further. Could be cable or perhaps a DOA PLM. The ISY will know the Insteon address and firmware level of the PLM if it can talk to it over the Serial connection. What is the exact PLM Type on the PLM label? 241x/y Once the ISY is able to communicate with the PLM then do a Restore Modem (PLM) to have the ISY adjust all the device link records to the new PLM address and write the necessary link records in the PLM itself. Lee
apostolakisl Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Hello buzzhazzard, Thanks for the update. Yes, you can still control your devices and your programs should work. And, yes, when you get a new PLM, all you have to do is to do a File | Restore Modem (PLM) and you should be done. One more question: have you ever done File | Remove Modem? If so, that explains all the issues because this function removes all the links from your PLM and restore will basically restore nothing. With kind regards, Michel Hi Michel et al I'm resurrecting an old thread because I just received a new PLM in the mail. I unplugged the old PLM, plugged in the new, connected the Cat 5 to the ISY and powered the ISY with a new power supply (since the new PLMs don't do that apparently). I then logged onto the web interface and was given a warning that it could not communicate with the PLM and that was usually the result of a defective PLM. Figuring that this was probably the result of adding the new PLM, I went to File|Restore Modem (PLM). It failed around 30% or so twice with the message Failed Resetting the PLM [-200000/-30] Am I doing something wrong? I just replaced a PLM as well and can report a possible reason. When I booted my ISY, I did not have the data cable connected. I connected it just a bit later. I did then get the same error you are getting. I then tried leaving the data cable between the PLM and the ISY connected. I unplugged both the PLM and the ISY. I did a factory reset on the PLM as I plugged it back in (held the button for 3 seconds). Then I powered the ISY. Then I restored the PLM from ISY and it worked.
Buzzhazz Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 Good news; bad news. I unplugged everything and set it all up again. When I used Tools|Diagnostics|PLM Info/Status, ISY appeared to go into a (maybe) Restore Modem routine which took several minutes. When it was done, it displayed 19.75.BP v98/Connected All good. It's a 2413S v1.5 Then I went to File|Restore Modem (PLM), the process took just a few seconds. I tried to post the results as an attachment, but I think that feature is disabled for me. I'll post it embedded if that helps. Next I tried the two simple programs I described earlier with the same results I received earlier. Specifically, 1) If I build a simple program to check the STATUS of a device and then do a Run (if), and APPLY, it works 2) If I build the same program but use CONDITION and the use the programmed switch to activate the program, nothing happens. Again,this is the same behavior that caused me to initiate this post in the first place. BTW, when I do a Tools|Diagnostics|Show PLM Links table and click Start, nothing happens. When I get tired of waiting and click count, I get 0. On top of this, with the new Modem installed, none of my scenes work from the ISY. I can control individual devices, but not scenes. I have about two dozen devices installed, including a signallinc at the breaker box, two access points on the first floor and two dual band Switchlincs on the second floor and in the lower level. Using all devices locally, I have experienced very reliable communication (approaching 100% I would say), so I don't think it's an Insteon communication problem. I'm stumped. I guess I could delete scenes and start over, but if the replacement modem did not fix the initial issue, I will probably return it to Smarthome and use the old one. The programming features of the ISY seem impressive, but I am unable to use them other than timers and STATUS programs. As always, thanks for the help, and I'll be happy to provide any additional info or run recommended diagnostics.
LeeG Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Now that the PLM is recognized the problem is the PLM no longer has any link records. These are necessary for PLM to receive device state change messages which would eventually trigger programs. Confirmed by the lack of link records displayed by the Show PLM Link Table results. The PLM link records are also needed to drive Scenes. Various symptoms all associated with the lack of link information in the PLM. Not sure if this is the result of running commands that required a PLM (Restore) when none was connected or something before that. If the Restore Modem (PLM) command is not restoring the PLM link records then that information seems lost from ISY files. Go to an earlier backup and see if the Restore Modem (PLM) will restore PLM link information from an earlier copy of the configuration. If not then the only solution is to Delete devices and add them back. Recreating Scenes will not restore the link information the ISY established when each device was added to the ISY. These link records are necessary for the ISY to be aware of device state changes.
LeeG Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 I just did a quick review of topic from the top. Michel raised a question that needs to be answered about a possible issue with firewall/AV blocking data being pushed from the ISY. Runs Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device communications events selected and run a Restore Device on one of the devices. This should indicate if device messages are being pushed out from the ISY. Often we use a paddle/button press to test this but the lack of PLM link records prevents that approach.
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