dss Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 The major category of home automation that Insteon still doesn't support are the door knobs. I see from the Universal Devices product page that there is the ISY994i Z that supports Zigbee. Anyone know if it will work with a Kwikset Zigbee door knob?: http://www.kwikset.com/SmartSecurity/Wi ... ology.aspx Any alternative suggestions on getting the door knobs automated in an ISY/Insteon system perhaps with Z-wave doorknobs: Baldwin http://www.baldwinhardware.com/products ... Entry.aspx Schlage http://link.schlage.com/Products/Pages/ ... erKit.aspx
fitzpatri8 Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 These work with the ISY by way of the MorningLinc module: http://www.smarthome.com/2458A1/Morning ... ler/p.aspx http://www.smarthome.com/_/Morning_Indu ... h/nav.aspx
dss Posted January 1, 2012 Author Posted January 1, 2012 These work with the ISY by way of the MorningLinc module: http://www.smarthome.com/2458A1/Morning ... ler/p.aspx http://www.smarthome.com/_/Morning_Indu ... h/nav.aspx The problem with the Morning Industry solution is that it is that communication is only one way. You can send commands to open or shut a lock but can't see the status of whether the lock is open or shut. The Kwickset Zigbee solution does report the status of the lock so if it can work with an ISY it would be a better solution. http://www.kwikset.com/SmartSecurity/Wi ... ology.aspx
fitzpatri8 Posted January 1, 2012 Posted January 1, 2012 The problem with the Morning Industry solution is that it is that communication is only one way. You can send commands to open or shut a lock but can't see the status of whether the lock is open or shut. The Kwickset Zigbee solution does report the status of the lock so if it can work with an ISY it would be a better solution. http://www.kwikset.com/SmartSecurity/Wi ... ology.aspx The problems with the Kwikset solution are that a) you get feedback on the state of the bolt (extended or recessed) but no confirmation that the door is actually locked (if the bolt is extended but the door is open you aren't secure); and the Kwikset solution speaks a different language than the ISY. ISY/Morning Industry option provides audible feedback on the state of the bolt, but either solution requires additional components to confirm the door is actually secured. Use the MorningLinc, a Morning Industries lock and an IOLinc and a plunger switch to detect the presence (or absence) of the bolt in the doorframe to get the best of both worlds.
dss Posted January 1, 2012 Author Posted January 1, 2012 The problem with the Morning Industry solution is that it is that communication is only one way. You can send commands to open or shut a lock but can't see the status of whether the lock is open or shut. The Kwickset Zigbee solution does report the status of the lock so if it can work with an ISY it would be a better solution. http://www.kwikset.com/SmartSecurity/Wi ... ology.aspx The problems with the Kwikset solution are that a) you get feedback on the state of the bolt (extended or recessed) but no confirmation that the door is actually locked (if the bolt is extended but the door is open you aren't secure); and the Kwikset solution speaks a different language than the ISY. I actually have an Elk Gold system with the Elk module so I am already getting the status of whether the door is actually opened or shut. It is just that I don't know whether it is locked or not. I had been looking at the ISY994i Z Series with Zigbee support and wondered if it was compatible with the Kwikset Zigbee door lock. If it were I'd consider upgrading my ISY99 to the ISY994i. http://www.universal-devices.com/commer ... i-z-series
Michel Kohanim Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Hello dss, Unfortunately not ... or at least not simply because there has not been much demand for it. Obviously, we are very eager to add more capabilities to 994iZ series ... just have to figure out support for devices with a little ROI. With kind regards, Michel
dss Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 Hello dss, Unfortunately not ... or at least not simply because there has not been much demand for it. Obviously, we are very eager to add more capabilities to 994iZ series ... just have to figure out support for devices with a little ROI. With kind regards, Michel I for one would vote for adding this capability and would upgrade to a 994iZ for this capability. I think automated door knobs are probably the last major hole in the Insteon ecosystem that Zigbee and Z-wave have that Insteon lacks. If it were publicized that the 994iZ had this capability over the 99i I think it would drive sales of 994iZ's. Even if you don't immediately intend to install automated door knobs you'd probably pay the extra $160 for that future capability. It would be the about the only solution that would give status back to Insteon. The only other alternative that I could see is using a Micasa Verde Vera that is supposed to support Z-wave and Insteon but it seems like the Insteon support for the Vera is weak and I'd much rather stay in the ISY environment.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Hi dss, Thanks so very much for the feedback. I do not think ZWave would work if the door lock is the only ZWave device in your network since: 1. Max range of ZWave radio is around 300ft 2. You need between 6 to 12 devices to have a good mesh (depending on the size of the location) We shall investigate Zigbee. With kind regards, Michel
Baypointe Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 I too would upgrade the 994iZ model and start selling them instead of 99i. I have bought the Morninglinc solution for locks as a test and it was incredible to have them auto lock the doors after arming/night, a real selling feature. This feature has been great but I have had issues with the door not locking. Locks were installed in winter and when summer came that slight seal difference misaligned the door just enough that the lock would not through. I have become so dependant on the house locking by it self that I didn’t notice this problem. This left the house unlocked for at least a month. If this was a customer the repercussion could be huge. I mostly install the Elk systems with ISY/insteon but having to retrofit a plunger in the door jamb to insure the lock is secure in an completed customer’s house is unrealistic. A two way insteon solution would be the best but morning locks are not quite as attractive as the Kwicksets. Door locking is one of those things that has to work %100 and the Morninglinc is great it is really only for the individual user and not as a retrofit reseller. Jim
dss Posted April 22, 2012 Author Posted April 22, 2012 I too would upgrade the 994iZ model and start selling them instead of 99i. Jim Yes, I hope they implement it soon. Although I've been happy with ISY and trust their support and updates going forward I've actually been contemplating changing over to a Cortexa CTXA-EZ1 http://www.smarthome.com/12021/Cortexa- ... EZ1/p.aspx to get Z-wave capability in addition to Insteon specifically for automated door locks. Pretty much the only thing Z-wave has that Insteon does not. I'm a little leery as they don't seem to have an established track record and they've abandoned prior product lines before and I would much prefer a 994iZ solution. The customer ratings on the Smarthome website seem to be positive though. So I'm holding off a few months to see if the 994iZ gets ZigBee door lock support and to get more reviews/feedback on Cortexa before deciding.
Michel Kohanim Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 Hi Jim/dss, We are currently alpha testing the INSTEON/ZWave solution. This said, I really cannot give an ETA mostly because of all the certification requirements. With kind regards, Michel
dss Posted April 23, 2012 Author Posted April 23, 2012 Hi Jim/dss, We are currently alpha testing the INSTEON/ZWave solution. This said, I really cannot give an ETA mostly because of all the certification requirements. With kind regards, Michel That's good to hear. But the 994iZ is already working with Zigbee right? So couldn't the Zigbee Door knobs be supported more quickly than waiting for Zwave? http://www.kwikset.com/Products/Details ... P-SMT.aspx http://www.kwikset.com/SmartSecurity/Wi ... wners.aspx http://www.baldwinhardware.com/products ... Entry.aspx
Michel Kohanim Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 Hello dss, Unfortunately not since a) the Zigbee doorlocks are from Control4 they don't provide any APIs and c) there are not very many interoperable Zigbee devices out there and thus, for consumer use, ZWave is a better choice. We should have a mailing list for Alpha ZWave solution shortly. With kind regards, Michel
ekuzmack Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 Please add me to the list for Zwave testing! I've got a bunch of zwave stuff still in the package that I can test from an abandoned vera installation... Hello dss, Unfortunately not since a) the Zigbee doorlocks are from Control4 they don't provide any APIs and c) there are not very many interoperable Zigbee devices out there and thus, for consumer use, ZWave is a better choice. We should have a mailing list for Alpha ZWave solution shortly. With kind regards, Michel
matapan Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 Isn't the path of least resistance and greatest ROI for Smarthome or a vendor supporting Insteon to design and release a two way door lock? Personally, I don't quite understand why Smarthome would use resources to develop a Fanlinc and not a door lock. Door locks are really the big hole in the range of Insteon devices supported. I purchased a Morninglinc to try it out with the Morning Industries lock. The Morninglinc's one way communication design doesn't lend itself to using it in high security applications. I have also had some issues with the deadbolt on the lock fully retracting consistently.
Michel Kohanim Posted April 25, 2012 Posted April 25, 2012 Hello matapan, In my personal view, and speaking from a protocol perspective, INSTEON payloads (14 bytes of data) do not lend themselves well for key management and security applications. Door locks must be very secure and that's why ML is one way (not secure to advertise your status). With kind regards, Michel
vbsafire1 Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 Does the Mornigstar Doorlocks work with the ISY99i or just the smartlinc?
fitzpatri8 Posted April 26, 2012 Posted April 26, 2012 The ISY does support the Insteon MorningLinc interface. It is the MorningLinc interface that actually talks with the Morning Industries remotely controllable locksets.
dss Posted April 30, 2012 Author Posted April 30, 2012 Hello dss, Unfortunately not since a) the Zigbee doorlocks are from Control4 they don't provide any APIs and c) there are not very many interoperable Zigbee devices out there and thus, for consumer use, ZWave is a better choice. We should have a mailing list for Alpha ZWave solution shortly. With kind regards, Michel Please add me to the list also. Are there particular brands of Z-wave locks that provide API's that you anticipate support for. I'd like to avoid the ones that don't provide API's like the Zigbee doorlocks? I see Schage: http://www.amazon.com/Schlage-Wireless- ... 175&sr=8-1 and Kwickset ones: http://www.amazon.com/Kwikset-99100-006 ... 175&sr=8-3
Michel Kohanim Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Hi dss, Currently Schlage is the one that we have worked on and are confident that it works. Others are in the pipeline. With kind regards, Michel
m_later Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Hi dss, Currently Schlage is the one that we have worked on and are confident that it works. Others are in the pipeline. With kind regards, Michel Can you expand on that? I feel like I jumped too early. I read about the new device supporting ZigBee bought it, but I made the false assumption that it would control the Kwikset locks. SO, now I really don't need to have spent the money. Which Schlage locks work with the new isy-994 and what do I need to control them? I thought Schlage was ZWave and I haven't seen any Zwave module for the 994 yet. Controlling the locks is all that is missing from what I want to automate in my house. Would like to use ISY to do it but from reading this and other threads, thinking other options may be better at this point. Or, maybe best to just get my money back until things are solidified.
Michel Kohanim Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Hello m_later, I am so very sorry to hear. As with everything Zigbee, there's really no guarantee of interoperability. If you decide to keep your unit, you can send an email to sales@universal-devices.com and when our ZWave dongle comes out (very shortly), then we'll swap out your Zigbee radio with a ZWave one. The process is quite simple; all you have to do is to change a daughter board. With kind regards, Michel
IndyMike Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Hello dss, Not sure if you are looking for a deadbolt or a locking handset (you linked to both below). If you are looking for a deadbolt... Unless something has changed in the Schlage design, it will not throw the bolt to lock the door (no motor). The "lock feature" simply disengages the external lever so that the door cannot be unlocked without a code. The Kwickset model does include a motor, and does report lock/unlock status. Since you already have an Elk system, I was wondering if you would consider using a deadbolt separate sensor? I've been using the following inductive sensors to sense the position of my Morning lock for the past couple years. It takes a little woodworking to get them in the door frame, but they've been bulletproof. I've also embedded the sensors in my sliding door foot locks to confirm that they are locked. The sensors require 10 to 30 volt excitation - I use the 12 V Aux outputs from the ELK to power them. Integrating the sensor with the ISY/morninglinc became "fall off a log" easy when UDI incorporated the ELK module. The combination of the ELK and the ISY has been one of the great success stories with the boss lady. When I'm on the road she can see the lock status of the house and all of the 7 entry points by looking at one of the "Status" KPL's spread through the house. No need to run the stairs unless a door is unlocked. http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Inductive_Proximity_Sensors_-z-_Proximity_Switches/Rectangular_(CR-z-DR-z-APS-z-LF40_Series)/12X27mm_(APS4_Series) Thought this might give you another option, IM Please add me to the list also. Are there particular brands of Z-wave locks that provide API's that you anticipate support for. I'd like to avoid the ones that don't provide API's like the Zigbee doorlocks? I see Schage: http://www.amazon.com/Schlage-Wireless- ... 175&sr=8-1 and Kwickset ones: http://www.amazon.com/Kwikset-99100-006 ... 175&sr=8-3
Slalom Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 I currently have a number of Kwikset units and would be happy to participate in a testing program when you are ready. I was going to use the Elk interface but would rather work with UD. Hi dss, Currently Schlage is the one that we have worked on and are confident that it works. Others are in the pipeline. With kind regards, Michel
Recommended Posts