Keypadlinc Button Grouping

[matapan]

Is there a good explanation available on how to set up Keypadlinc button grouping?

 

I looked at the Wiki page on button grouping. It appears to be outdated, as the screenshots used don't match the actual button grouping dialog.

 

The new dialog (I have firmware version 3.1.14) has a number of sections on the top of the screen with checkboxes. The wiki page doesn't show this. According to the wiki description, one simply drags the buttons one wants to group into one of the available scenes. Is this the way it works in the latest firmware release? I am at a loss as to how one sets up mutually exclusive button groups. I want to set up a group of three buttons where only one of the three buttons can be pressed.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi matapan,

 

You can use scenes to create groupings. In short, it means that you can have the following scenarios (on the same KPL):

1. A group of one or more buttons turn on/off as a group

2. Turning one could turn a group of one or more buttons off

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[matapan]

I think I understand the differences between creating a scene to handle mutually exclusive buttons and defining them using the feature in the Admin Console.

 

What I want to understand is how to use the Admin Console's button grouping feature. The Wiki page describing the feature does not match the current UI (3.1.15). What are the checkboxes above the tree list for? Also, the UI warns you can corrupt scenes if you're not careful about how you go about performing this operation. Two questions: What are the manifestations of a corrupt scene - how do you recognize a scene has been corrupted? Second: How does one rectify the corruption once it happens?

 

If I understood the consequences better and how to take care of it, I would probably have played around with the UI to figure it out.

[LeeG]

The Button Grouping display shows each of the 5 (for 6 button KPL) or 8 buttons available to be grouped together in vertical columns. The checked box to the left of the top entry indicates that button as part of the Group if other buttons in that vertical group have been checked defining the Group.

 

If Scenes have been defined to manage button LED illumination and then Groups are defined the Button Grouping function could change button LED illumination patterns that are inconsistent with what the Scenes are defined to do. The KPL does not indicate to an application (ISY) it has turned Off a KPL LED as part of the Group operation. This could result in the LED pattern established by the Scene(s) changed without the application being aware.

 

Another issue with Button Grouping it only works where the KPL button is actually being pressed. If multiple KPLs are cross-linked the KPLs that are cross-linked do not stay in sync even if all the KPLs have the same Button Group definitions. Button Grouping only works where buttons are actually being pressed.

 

Hope that helps. Please post additional if other questions remain.

[matapan]

Thank you for the reply, LeeG.

 

What is the relationship between the columns and the tree below in the same dialog?

[LeeG]

Either the KeypadLinc has gained some additional function or my memory was wrong. Either way I gave you bad information before.

 

To define a set of Mutually Exclusive buttons use the lower section and drag/drop the buttons to one of the Mutually Exclusive Buttons definitions (1,2 on 6 button, 1-4 on 8 button). For example, button B,C,D can be dropped on Mutually Exclusive Buttons 1, button G,H can be dropped on Mutually Exclusive Buttons 2. Buttons B,C,D operate as a Mutually Exclusive Group and G,H operate as another Mutually Exclusive Group. The respective check boxes in the columns above are checked gray reflecting the mutual relationship.

 

Explicitly checking a button box in the columns above causes the checked buttons to be turned Off when the top button in the column is pressed, For example, in the column labeled Button D buttons E,G are explicitly checked. When button D is pressed, On or Off, E,G are turned Off if On.

 

My apologies for the previous wrong info. I have established the above examples and they work as described.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi matapan,

 

I am a little concerned with what you are trying to accomplish. Please do be kind enough to pay heed to the WARNING on the top of the dialog. This dialog is kept there only for backward compatibility and using it is NOT recommended (you should use scenes instead). Furthermore, in the same Warning, you will note the difference: setting up button grouping with the dialog prevents ISY from being able to predict the status.

 

Yes, WiKi is not updated and it's inexcusable ... this said, I think the big red WARNING sign on the dialog should be sufficient to explain what course of action should be taken.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[matapan]

I tried using scenes for button grouping today.

 

The intent was to set up a group where only one button in the group could be on at a time. The scene I created works, except for the fact that the button that is ON can be toggled off, creating the state where all of the buttons in the scene are off.

 

What can I do to ensure one button in the group is always on?

[LeeG]

Even using the KeypadLinc Button Grouping function it is legal to toggle the current On button to Off such that they are all Off. Turning the button Off presumably turned the Scene Off so leaving the button LED On would be misleading. It would look like the Scene was On when it was Off.

 

That said the Program can be set up to turn the button LED back On when an Off is received.