Well I have been a happy ISY users for years. I have around 3 dozen devices. Having written my own app for Insteon I understand the "quirkiness" of the protocol and how hard is must be to support for UDI.

 

Today I decided to replace my PLM with a dual band model. I came to the forum first and looked for any gotchas, read the wiki and it all sounded easy enough. Well after replacing the PLM according to the Wiki instructions I logged in to find the ever scrolling dialog. System busy 0...100, system busy 0...100, system busy 0...100 and over and over and over. No indication what it is trying to do. Finally it started throwing errors can't talk to device 1, can't talk to device 2, and on and on. Ok that seems reasonable. So once it seemed to settle down, I did the Restore PLM. Now I am in this boat where some of my devices still can't communicate, it's hard to tell some have the little 1011 icon, some exclamation marks, some seem ok. This has been going on for a couple of hours now.

 

Like I said I understand that Smarthome jacked up the protocol in myriad of ways. UDI is doing their best. But the one thing that would be nice, is if when the ISY has a ton of stuff to do to list it out instead of popping up endless System Busy dialogs over and over and over and over and over....

 

It's really frustrating to not know what is going on. I am not sure what my next steps are or where I end up. Right now I am thinking I may have to just rebuild everything from scratch and/or return the PLM and maybe even consider switching to UPB cause I am kinda getting sick of all the Insteon issues.

The Green 1011 Icons and red ! indicate comm problems to those devices. Some may be RF devices which are predictable. Suggest working with one device at a time. The ones with the red ! can generally be cleared with a Query (right click node and select Query) assuming comm is good now. If comm is not so good with this new PLM then that has to be cleared up first. The green 1011 Icons indicate pending updates to that device. Right click on node and select Write Updates to Device. Until all the link records have been changed to the new PLM address devices will not work correctly.

 

What ISY firmware is running?

 

Is the new PLM plug point different from before?

 

Why the switch to a new PLM?

 

I don't use UPB but some folks have said it is more reliable. It is more expensive. Insteon is a good technology but it does require a relatively clean power line environment. Insteon works well but it may also require more work to get it that way. Kind of one of those you get what you pay for.

I have no wireless devices, firmware is 3.1.14. I have had occasional issues where a device didn't respond so I my plan was to start putting in dual-band devices from now on to help reliability, ha. The plugin point is the same for the PLM. The only thing I can think of is it is more prone to noise or has a weaker signal than the original PLM.

 

The devices that are not responding are on both circuit legs, but a lot of them are on the same circuit. I am in the process of moving my access points around to see if I can fix the issues. I also have a couple of dual band switchlincs that I could use to replace some switches, but I a little leary of doing anything right now until I get all the current devices to at least get their links updated from the new PLM.

 

I don't blame the ISY at this point, it seems to be Insteon signal issues with new PLM. But I do blame the ISY for being so poor at telling me what is going on. If I query it should display one busy dialog, not 3. And if it is gonna query all the devices then it should list all of it's outstanding tasks, instead of the busy dialog over and over. There is huge room for improvement there.

Hello Wuench,

 

Have you tried Event Viewer? I am certain Event Viewer will tell you everything you need to know especially if you use the last level.

 

As far as 3 busy dialogs, I will have to consider this a bug since, from code perspective, this must be an impossibility since the dialog is a singleton (you can only have one instance). It would be great if the next time it happens, you can tell us the procedures to reproduce.

 

As far as all the problems you are having, you must note that changing the PLM means changing the links to the PLM in all devices. Even though ISY is extremely good at queuing things such that there's no interference with anything else, in some cases it's best to disable all your programs before restoring PLM or all devices. I have to emphasize that the ISY will continue to work even in conditions where you have 100s of programs running BUT for cases where you do not know why you have comm errors, it's easier to remove one variable.

 

Once that's done:

1. Disable all nodes with green 1011 icons

2. Query all nodes with ! .. if it succeeds, right mouse click | Restore Device. If not, disable it

 

At this point, you have a list of disabled devices. What you will have to do is for each, right mouse click | Write updates to device (keeping the Event Viewer open). If it fails, we will have to figure out why.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

I have not tried the event viewer I will take a lot at it. As far as the 3 busy dialogs, I didn't mean concurrently, I mean whenever communication fails I get multiple system busy dialogs in a row, and when there are links etc being tried it can be more and when there are multiple devices involved like in a PLM restore it is more still. I like the dialog where I drag several devices to a scene, it would be nice if the other types of tasks displayed a dialog like that, listing all the tasks. And if multiple attempts are made in failed comm what I did in my Insteon program was display (try 1 of 3) type info instead of repeating 3 dialogs in a row.

 

So I would summarize my issues to being poorer performance from the new PLM and trying to do the restore under those conditions. I was able to solve most of the issues by putting a filter on a UPS with the same circuit as the PLM. It wasn't needed with the old one. Once I got communication working doing the replace PLM did nothing, things were in a bad state, I had to rebuild all my scenes from scratch. I also tried to replace two devices on one circuit after that (one dead Switchlinc and one 1000W Switchlinc exhibiting the flicker issue, old devices). I replaced the switchlinc with a dual-band model, after that I was have a hard time communicating on that circuit again. I found that switching from Automatic to Device Reported under advanced seems to "fingers crossed" have fixed the issues with that circuit.

 

I don't really blame you guys or the ISY for this. There is definitely something different/worse about the dual-band PLM's powerline signal level. Like I said I wrote an Insteon program back in the early days, I abandoned it after struggling with all the effort involved to overcome all of Insteon's shortcomings with single byte communication, long delays, etc. So I really do understand and I think you've done a great job, best job so far, in overcoming those. Just if you see an opportunity to give the user a little more feedback when doing long/multiple operations it would be nice...

I assume you made a backup of your ISY prior to starting any of this.

 

You could always restore that backup to ISY and put the old PLM back in. You would still need to restore any of your devices that did get successfully updated to the new PLM.

Hi Wuench,

 

Sincere apologies for tardy reply.

 

First of all, I must tell you that, yes, our user experience will benefit from more feedback.

 

Secondly - and based on what you have described - I think the problems are much larger than the dual band PLM not being as good as the old one. I really think you have major RF interference which could be caused by any of the following:

1. SwitchLinc v35 ... if you have any of these, you have to replace them. Sorry, but this is a MUST

2. Baby monitors which use frequencies is 800 to 900 MHz ... this could kill INSTEON RF

3. Older version Thermostat dongles ... if you do not have 2.2 or above, they have to be replaced (yet another MUST)

4. A defective PLM

 

I know you have already had a hell of time and that you do not want to touch the unit but I am afraid you are in for a major problems in the future especially since you used Device Reported. This may seem to work from ISY perspective, but this does not mean that the devices actually did write the correct links. As a matter of fact, that's why default is Automatic since, in most cases, Device Reported has major side effects that you might not notice now but they will show up randomly.

 

If you can rule out #s 1, 2, and 3 above, please do send me an email (support@universal-devices.com) as soon as possible to resolve #4. Please do not order a replacement PLM from SmartHome before contacting me.

 

I am so very sorry for all the trouble you have been going through.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

I just sorted my main device list to discover I have 4- v35 switchlinc in my home

what should I be on the look out for

 

Hi Wuench,

 

...Secondly - and based on what you have described - I think the problems are much larger than the dual band PLM not being as good as the old one. I really think you have major RF interference which could be caused by any of the following:

1. SwitchLinc v35 ... if you have any of these, you have to replace them. Sorry, but this is a MUST

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Hello NNilsen,

 

You MUST replace SwitchLinc v35. Also, KeypadLinc 2A and 2D. And, finally, thermostat dongles lower than v2.2.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

I do not appear to have any communication issues. Small home < 2k sq ft

I have access points and dual band devices all over the house, hardwire phase couplers at both breaker panels, and filters on all AV and computer gear.

 

Like most DYI projects, The 'system' devices started as X10 brand, migrated to switchlinc v1, then insteon v2

Controllers have been Houselinc, Touchlinc, Homeseer Pro, Home Control Assistant, and tada... ISY 994i

The installed count is:

0- Therms

0- 2486 v2A

6- 2486 v2D

4- 2476 v35

So cost to replace will be a bit...

 

What should I be looking for...

Can I use the ISY event viewer to analyze signal, hops etc.

Does your Wiki describe how to read the ISY event viewer.

I found a few old X10 commands still programmed in the migrated switches that I was able to clear

 

Hello NNilsen,

 

You MUST replace SwitchLinc v35. Also, KeypadLinc 2A and 2D. And, finally, thermostat dongles lower than v2.2.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Hi NNilsen,

 

You can get your SWL35s replaced for free. They have known defects which will cause major problems in INSTEON network.

 

For KPL2A/2D, the problems are intermittent and you might have devices that turn on/off on their own just because they had been linked to KPL 2A/2D at some point.

 

Here's a high level explanation of Event Viewer:

http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... ent_Viewer

 

With kind regards,

Michel

My system with a isy99 and a plm has worked find for 6 or more months. In the last month, it appears to be locking up. Sometimes the plm will have its green light solid and other times it will lock up red or not at all. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the failures. When I start the admin screen, it starts up and says it can't communicate with anything. I've tried just unplugging the plm and I've tried just unplugging the isy99. I found that the plm always needs to be unplugged to get it back on line, and sometimes the isy99 needs to be rebooted or power cycled in order to get them talking again. I don't see anything in the logs that would seem to give me a hint as to the problem and the failures are too seldom to monitor (about every other day and sometimes 1 day). Its a real bummer since most of my house lights, motion sensors, and thermostats all require programs on the isy99 to function properly.

Hello NNilsen,

 

You MUST replace SwitchLinc v35. Also, KeypadLinc 2A and 2D. And, finally, thermostat dongles lower than v2.2.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Michael, what's the process with Smarthome to get a V35 device replaced?

 

I have both a switchlinc dimmer AND a switchlinc relay. I have noticed one relay it a little flakey.

 

Also on the Keypad does it actually have V2A or V2D on the version, mine seem to be all V2# <= no letters

SmartHome Pro will not replace that version. The period of defect notice has expired. I spent $$$$ to replace all mine.

Hi fwoitine,

 

I am so very sorry to hear. Would you please:

1. Upgrade to 3.3.10 (which is our current official release)

2. Clear your Error Log

3. Keep an eye, and if you still experience problems send your Tools | Error Log to support@universal-devices.com

 

With kind regards,

Michel

My system with a isy99 and a plm has worked find for 6 or more months. In the last month, it appears to be locking up. Sometimes the plm will have its green light solid and other times it will lock up red or not at all. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the failures. When I start the admin screen, it starts up and says it can't communicate with anything. I've tried just unplugging the plm and I've tried just unplugging the isy99. I found that the plm always needs to be unplugged to get it back on line, and sometimes the isy99 needs to be rebooted or power cycled in order to get them talking again. I don't see anything in the logs that would seem to give me a hint as to the problem and the failures are too seldom to monitor (about every other day and sometimes 1 day). Its a real bummer since most of my house lights, motion sensors, and thermostats all require programs on the isy99 to function properly.

 

Just wanted to provide an update. The issue seemed to go away for awhile so it delayed me finding the problem and knowing that I found it.

 

I did replace the PLM. First thing I noticed, when the old PLM was locked up the green LED was on bright. When I reset it the light would be dim and blink occasionally.

 

The new plm came on and lit with the green LED on bright. This one has been in operation over a month and seems to have fixed the issues I had.

 

Thanks Michael for all your help and support. This was a difficult problem for me to diagnose and none of the logs seemed to point me in the right direction.

Thank you for the update.