Isy programming

[apostolakisl]

OK, it appears that a device that is not in any scenes doesn't show up at all.  I really didn't notice this since damn near every single one of my devices is in a scene that is called "all devices"

 

So my suggestion to you would be to create a scene and call it "all devices" and put them all in there.

[LeeG]

"So my suggestion to you would be to create a scene and call it "all devices" and put them all in there."

 

Unfortunately that is not possible as all the devices would be cross-linked.

[apostolakisl]

"So my suggestion to you would be to create a scene and call it "all devices" and put them all in there."

 

Unfortunately that is not possible as all the devices would be cross-linked.

 

Not sure what you are talking about.  I have a scene I call "all" and it contains almost every one of my devices as a responder.   There is no reason I could not add the last couple devices if I wanted to (but I don't which is why I have this scene, so i can turn all the lights on during a fire alarm and not also turn on the bathroom fans).

[Xathros]

I would add the fans to that scene and set the on levels to 0 to effectively turn them off when that scene is called.

 

 

-Xathros

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LeeG]

gduprey

 

"Is there something special about a device or scene in order for it to be listed as in the 'In Scene' drop-down box? "

 

The device has to be a Controller in a Scene to appear in the "In Scene" pulldown list.  A Scene would have to have devices defined.

 

What are the Scene characteristics that do not appear in the "In Scene" list?   How many devices in the Scene, mix of Controller versus Responders, etc

[LeeG]

apostolakisl

 

"There is no reason I could not add the last couple devices if I wanted to (but I don't which is why I have this scene, so i can turn all the lights on during a fire alarm and not also turn on the bathroom fans)."

 

The discussion is the use of Adjust Scene.  I do not see how that relates to a Scene of Responders to turn devices On when a fire.  To appear in the "In Scene" list the devices would have to be Controllers which gets back to the devices being cross-linked when a Controller.

Edited September 13, 2014 by LeeG

[apostolakisl]

So, I have an idea, why don't we solve the problem.

 

1) "Adjust Scene" is incorrect.  When you are presented with a list that includes names of devices and scenes where it says "in scene", that is incorrect nomenclature.  A device is not a scene and therefore should never be listed as on option for "in scene".  UD should at least re-label the situation as I mentioned in another thread.  This is confusing to say the least.

2) UD should also re-do "adjust scene" to include devices on their own.  There are historical reasons for not being able to adjust devices programmatically, (the fact that a power cycle used to be require after such a change).  But this limitation does not exist with devices made for years.  

3) In the mean time, put any devices you want to adjust programmatically into a scene as a controller.  If that means a one device scene, then so be it.  This here is the point of this particular thread and could have been taken care of many posts ago.

Edited September 14, 2014 by apostolakisl

[Michel Kohanim]

apostolakisl,

 

With all due respect, I think you are confusing two things:

1. Local on level and ramp rate ... these are not listed because of historical reasons (air-gap)

2. Adjusting on level and ramp rate when a device is part of a scene:

-- In case that device is the controller of the scene, then on level and ramp rate is for "itself" ... this is why you see "Applied Locally" in the scene view

 

I do not see any issues whatsoever with what we currently have. What we are missing are on level/ramp rate for device when adjusted outside of the scene.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[apostolakisl]

apostolakisl,

 

With all due respect, I think you are confusing two things:

1. Local on level and ramp rate ... these are not listed because of historical reasons (air-gap)

2. Adjusting on level and ramp rate when a device is part of a scene:

-- In case that device is the controller of the scene, then on level and ramp rate is for "itself" ... this is why you see "Applied Locally" in the scene view

 

I do not see any issues whatsoever with what we currently have. What we are missing are on level/ramp rate for device when adjusted outside of the scene.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

No, not confusing two things, these are two things.

 

1) In a program, you are given the option to "adjust scene"

 

Your next choice is "in scene"  It should follow then that you are presented a list of scenes.  However, in the drop down menu you are presented with a list that includes the names of scenes, and individual devices.  This makes no sense on the surface and requires a fair amount of research to figure out what the heck it is doing there.  A device is not a scene and to "fill in the blank" with the name of a device when presented with the question "in scene" is using incorrect naming language.  What it is meaning to say in that situation is "devices controlled by this device".  Of course you can't only say that, since the list also includes scenes.  I am not entirely sure how to make this naming more correct and intuitive.  I have some ideas, but they seem messy to me, but I am sure there is a non-messy way to do it.

 

2) The second thing I totally agree with you on.  Since air-gap is no longer required to adjust local properties, why not include direct access to devices for changing local control properties.  Why require the workaround of putting a device in a scene as a controller to adjust its local control properties via a program.  I understand that it was happenstance that because scene adjusting allowed local control properties to be adjusted, that ability got in there when adjusting scenes even though the device wouldn't actually change without a power cycle.

Edited September 15, 2014 by apostolakisl

[LeeG]

Putting the update of local on level/ramp rate aside, the objective of Adjust Scene is to update the information in a

Responder link record (a link record that starts with A2).  To do this the ISY needs the Insteon address of the Controller

and of course the information to update.  The "In Scene" parameter identifies the Controller.  When an ISY Scene name is

specified "In Scene" the Controller Insteon address is the PLM.  The other possibility is enter the name of a Controller in 

an ISY Scene which also provides the Controller Insteon address.  That is what the list of devices in the "In Scene" pulldown

is, Controllers in ISY Scenes.

 

The second piece of information is the Responder Insteon address, On Level/Ramp Rate to adjust.  That is what the "Set" parameter provides.  The combination of Controller Insteon address from "In Scene" and the Responder Insteon address from "Set" identifies which Responder link record (A2) to update.

 

To summarize, "In Scene" provides Controller Insteon address

"Set" identfies the Responder address and new data. 

 

Scene1

Controller1

Controller2

Responder1

Responder2

 

The information in Red can be entered into "In Scene"

The information in Blue can be entered into "Set"

 

Of course a Controller may also be a Responder but would never be entered into the same Adjust Scene statement (not

discussing changing Local information).

 

Sorry if the source of this creates more problems than it solves.

[apostolakisl]

 

Putting the update of local on level/ramp rate aside, the objective of Adjust Scene is to update the information in a

Responder link record (a link record that starts with A2).  To do this the ISY needs the Insteon address of the Controller

and of course the information to update.  The "In Scene" parameter identifies the Controller.  When an ISY Scene name is

specified "In Scene" the Controller Insteon address is the PLM.  The other possibility is enter the name of a Controller in 

an ISY Scene which also provides the Controller Insteon address.  That is what the list of devices in the "In Scene" pulldown

is, Controllers in ISY Scenes.

 

The second piece of information is the Responder Insteon address, On Level/Ramp Rate to adjust.  That is what the "Set" parameter provides.  The combination of Controller Insteon address from "In Scene" and the Responder Insteon address from "Set" identifies which Responder link record (A2) to update.

 

To summarize, "In Scene" provides Controller Insteon address

"Set" identfies the Responder address and new data. 

 

Scene1

Controller1

Controller2

Responder1

Responder2

 

The information in Red can be entered into "In Scene"

The information in Blue can be entered into "Set"

 

Of course a Controller may also be a Responder but would never be entered into the same Adjust Scene statement (not

discussing changing Local information).

 

Sorry if the source of this creates more problems than it solves.

 

 

You illustrate the point nicely.  

 

 

To summarize, "In Scene" provides Controller Insteon address

"Set" identfies the Responder address and new data. 

 

Scene1

Controller1

Controller2

Responder1

Responder2

 

The red are responses to the question "in scene".  Controller 1, controller 2, etc. are device names, not scene names.  Human names for devices and scenes are an ISY property, not an Insteon property, and the current "in scene" format doesn't follow the naming and organizing conventions established elsewhere by ISY.

 

Quite possibly the most important aspect of an ISY is to take the Insteon addressing system and put it into an intuitive user interface. Insteon addressing doesn't respect the human naming of scenes, ISY has created that, and in this instance, ISY is blending things.

 

Even if it said "in scene or scene controller device" it would be accurate, though still perhaps non-intuitive.  That is why I believe there has got to be a better way to organize this.

 

EDIT: OK, here is an idea on how to do this.  First change the name to "adjust device and scene settings"  When you click on it, you get the full list of devices and scenes (at least ones that have settable attributes), then when you click on a scene or device, you get a pane that opens just like the main ISY page that allows you to set things using the same exact methods as you do from the main page.  

Edited September 15, 2014 by apostolakisl

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello apostolakisl and LeeG,

 

Thanks so very much for the feedback. I think we all agree that a) we should put on level/ramp rate as adjustable properties for devices.

 

As far as the naming convention and the proposed solution, I must humbly disagree with the approach outlined by apostolakisl as it makes things much more complicated. I think the best thing to do would be to have a little help button or popup that describes what a scene is. i.e. a scene is either an ISY scene or a controller within an ISY scene.

 

With kind regards,

Michel