Release 3.2.4 (Beta) Is Now Available

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello blueman2,

 

Thanks so very much for the update. I still haven't heard back from SmartHome but I tend to agree with you. I do not think this value can be changed. This said, the fact that it returns random values, to me, is a bug.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[blueman2]

Michel,

 

Again, thanks for the work on this one. It is very interesting that I now have 3 2476ST's. All are v.40. All 3 show different values in default timeout! One shows 15. Another shows 255. 3rd shows 0. All do timeout just fine at 15 minutes for one paddle toggle.

 

Just weird!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi blueman2,

 

Thank you. Mine shows 15 but it's not constant. This is definitely a bug.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[blueman2]

... Any and all SWT which had working 15 timers do not work any longer. As stated before some of the devices now show 0, 15, 255 minutes in their respective captured timer values from the options list.

 

Note, prior to this event in 3.1.7 release all of the SWT worked just fine and operated as expected. I have been able to confirm that all of the other check box's also operated as expected.

 

ie. LED traffic, 1 minute count down, etc.

 

Somewhere in the firmware update(s) all of these SWT have since stopped working in terms of timers. They do in fact operate as normal switches and always take on any programming from the ISY for work around fix.

 

These devices appear to take on all program updates. But, something has corrupted them from their default firmware settings.

 

Teken . . .

 

 

Michel, after further usage, I am sad to say I am getting the exact same result as Teken. A newly installed SWT works fine in all regards, including all check boxes and acting as a timer, except of course for the timer value cannot be changed. It just stays at 15. It was based on this 'new' switch that I gave my prior positive results post.

 

However, my OLD SWTs which I had originally installed about 1-2 months ago and which were originally installed with 3.1.7 ISY firmware are totally hosed in terms of being able to be used as a timer. My guess is that something in the 3.1.7 or later firmware made changes which killed the timer function of these switches. I will try to so some more factory resets to get them back, but so far this seems like permanent damage to the SWT timer function. I guess I will continue to use these as standard relay switches.

 

The only hope I see is that if we are able to write enough to the timer function to kill it, then maybe the timer function can indeed be changed. So perhaps over time there is hope for being able to 1) restore our switches to Timers, and 2) be able to custom set the time.

[LeeG]

Clearly that device has a firmware/hardware issue. It should not be possible to issue any Insteon command that has an affect after a Factory Reset.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi LeeG/blueman2,

 

I tend to agree with LeeG: there's certainly a firmware issue with this device. This said, I am not sure why only releases 3.2.x cause it to misbehave. We have to take yet another look.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

... Any and all SWT which had working 15 timers do not work any longer. As stated before some of the devices now show 0, 15, 255 minutes in their respective captured timer values from the options list.

 

Note, prior to this event in 3.1.7 release all of the SWT worked just fine and operated as expected. I have been able to confirm that all of the other check box's also operated as expected.

 

ie. LED traffic, 1 minute count down, etc.

 

Somewhere in the firmware update(s) all of these SWT have since stopped working in terms of timers. They do in fact operate as normal switches and always take on any programming from the ISY for work around fix.

 

These devices appear to take on all program updates. But, something has corrupted them from their default firmware settings.

 

Teken . . .

 

 

Michel, after further usage, I am sad to say I am getting the exact same result as Teken. A newly installed SWT works fine in all regards, including all check boxes and acting as a timer, except of course for the timer value cannot be changed. It just stays at 15. It was based on this 'new' switch that I gave my prior positive results post.

 

However, my OLD SWTs which I had originally installed about 1-2 months ago and which were originally installed with 3.1.7 ISY firmware are totally hosed in terms of being able to be used as a timer. My guess is that something in the 3.1.7 or later firmware made changes which killed the timer function of these switches. I will try to so some more factory resets to get them back, but so far this seems like permanent damage to the SWT timer function. I guess I will continue to use these as standard relay switches.

 

The only hope I see is that if we are able to write enough to the timer function to kill it, then maybe the timer function can indeed be changed. So perhaps over time there is hope for being able to 1) restore our switches to Timers, and 2) be able to custom set the time.

 

 

Thank you for confirming it on your end as well. What ever can be done would be greatly appreciated! The reason this is so important to me now is that I am receiving another couple of these SLT units in the near future.

 

I can not have these brand new devices damaged or corrupted. I have very specific areas / zones in the home which I have made a conscious decision to have devices which will do something by default natively with out any HA controller, or user interaction(s).

 

As always I thank the UDI team for their continued support, and never ending improvements in the ISY-99 platform . . .

 

Teken . . .

[blueman2]

OK, I did repeated factory resets and I think returned one of my SLT's to working factory condition, including timer. At least, it now reads 15 minutes rather than 255 or 0. I will confirm once I do some tests of actual count downs. But this is good news. Frankly, I cannot image it is possible to ever write something to a switchlinc that cannot be erased with factory reset.

 

EDIT: OK, I spoke too soon. The older switches remain broken in terms of timer function. A factory reset does change the timer in the ISY screen back to 15, but the countdown timer itself remains non-operational. My 2476ST's have been turned into 2476S's. Again, positive news in a strange way. It does show that somehow you can mess with the timer function. But it also shows that, contrary to what I would have ever believed, it is possible to mess up a switch by writing to it so that even a factory reset will not return it to normal operation. Very very odd.

[LeeG]

The SwitchLinc Timer is the only device I have heard of since 2005 with that type of problem (factory reset would not undo a setting by a command). Could have been others. Smarthome/Smartlabs does not share that type of information with the field so it could have happened before but it is something that would tend to stand out.

[blueman2]

Frankly, I am having trouble believing this can happen. I keep thinking I will realize there is something wrong I am doing. I am going to continue playing with my 3 SLTs. Having the Timer function non-operational is no big deal for me really. I can always create a program with the ISY to do pretty much the same thing. But I am fascinated by the fact that the function can be killed in a way that a factory reset does not fix. Definitely a bug in the design of the switch. A well designed switch firmware would make this impossible. Perhaps related to why they discontinued this switch??

 

Michel, I would say put this on the back burner for when you have time to investigate, and don't waste a lot of cycles on it. I am OK with the switches as they are. But it is a very interesting puzzle!

[Teken]

Strange bug has been found. Because the SWT does not work anymore I decided to use the power of the ISY to band aid this device. I have two relay KPL's which control the ceiling light in the kitchen.

 

The problem I had initially was that once the timer in the kitchen had expired the two KPL buttons would not turn off. Displaying an incorrect state to the user.

 

So, I added the two KPL to the original program and what struck me odd is the following. You will notice that this KPL Relay v.36 does not have the options to turn the device on / off?? Only the options to make changes to the LED levels??

 

Could someone please investigate this issue . . .

 

Teken . . .

[LeeG]

A Secondary KeypadLinc button cannot be turned On/Off with Insteon Direct On/Off commands. The Secondary KeypadLinc button(s) needs to be a Responder in an ISY Scene and the Scene turned On/Off.

[Teken]

A Secondary KeypadLinc button cannot be turned On/Off with Insteon Direct On/Off commands. The Secondary KeypadLinc button(s) needs to be a Responder in an ISY Scene and the Scene turned On/Off.

 

I follow what you're trying to say. But, if you look at my program above you will notice I am able to add in a secondary KPL's button with a on/off.

 

I don't understand how one can be added, while another one won't? In the interim I have added the scene to the *then* and will see if the two KPL's do in fact turn on / off once the 15 minute timer expires.

 

Teken . . .

[LeeG]

If you are referring to the button in the Action section of the post KPL Entry Light Ceiling, that is adjusting the "backlight" level. Adjusting backlight level applies to the entire KeypadLinc. It adjusts the differential LED level of a button that is Off versus On. Adjusting the backlight level does not turn On/Off the LED. The only KeypadLinc button that can be turned On/Off with an Insteon Direct command is the Primary load control button.

 

Every KPL button has a Group number associated with it. For an 8 button KPL …

 

A (Main) – load control button – Group 1

B – Group 2

C – Group 3

etc

 

The only way a KPL knows what button a command is targeted at is to look at the Group number. There is no place holder in an Insteon Direct On/Off command for a Group number. The Primary load control button responds to Direct On/Off commands as the assumption is a Direct On/Off command is directed at that button. There is no mechanism in an Insteon Direct On/Off command to identify any KPL button.

 

Scenes have Responders which can be specific KPL nodes (ISY knows the KPL button to Group number). Therefore when a Scene is used the Group number of the Responder KPL button is known. That is why a Scene must be used to turn a Secondary KPL button On/Off.

[Teken]

Hello LeeG,

 

I don't believe we are on the same page here. Let me try to explain again the problem at hand.

If you look at the first screen capture you will see three lines of text. The one high lighted in blue had the option to select on, off, fast on, fast off, etc

 

The other KPL which is also in the same screen capture in the action pane does not have any of these options.

 

My question is why does this Insteon device not have these on, off, fast on, fast off, etc options as the other KPL relay? All there is are LED dimming features??

 

Teken . . .

[LeeG]

"KPL Entry Light - Ceiling" is what button on "KPL Entry Light"?

 

"KPL Master Fan - Ceiling" is what button on "KPL Master Bath Fan"?

[Teken]

"KPL Entry Light - Ceiling" is what button on "KPL Entry Light"?

 

"KPL Master Fan - Ceiling" is what button on "KPL Master Bath Fan"?

 

Both of these KPL's are relay style devices. One is a dual band relay, the other is a regular 6 button relay converted to a 8 button KPL. In all cases the KPL button's are secondary controllers to the the ceiling light in the kitchen.

 

None of them control the local load directly, they are simply linked via the Insteon network. Specifically, the dual band KPL relay in the Master Bedroom is using the H button. The Entry KPL is the D button.

 

So, again I don't understand why this KPL does not have these options as the others?

 

Teken . . .

[LeeG]

If "KPL Master Fan - Ceiling" is a Secondary button it should not have had an On/Off option. Unless that name was assigned to the Primary button by mistake I have no explanation. Insteon Direct commands have never (since 2005) had and do not have the ability to turn a Secondary button On/Off.

 

Perhaps go to the Admin Console, select that button and turn it On with the On button. Which button on the KPL actually turned On.

[Teken]

If "KPL Master Fan - Ceiling" is a Secondary button it should not have had an On/Off option. Unless that name was assigned to the Primary button by mistake I have no explanation. Insteon Direct commands have never (since 2005) had and do not have the ability to turn a Secondary button On/Off.

 

Perhaps go to the Admin Console, select that button and turn it On with the On button. Which button on the KPL actually turned On.

 

I think I may have narrowed down one possible reason. The two dual band KPL relays both allow the load button and the secondary buttons to have a on, off, fast on, fast off, etc options.

 

While the older units do not . . . For reference the dual band KPL's are v.40

 

Using the Admin Console and turning on the both KPLs turns on the central fan & the entry light. Which are the loads in their respective rooms.

 

There is a bug some where . . .

 

Teken . . .

[LeeG]

The Admin Console does not show On/Off buttons when I select a Secondary button on a new KPL Relay Dual Band with v.40 firmware.

 

When I put that Set statement in a Program it does not function. The Event Trace shows no commands sent to the KPL. The On/Off options should not be available for Secondary KPL buttons.

[LeeG]

Run this REST command from a browser command line. What is in the

tag for "KPL Master Fan - Ceiling"

 

http://192.168.2.2/rest/nodes/

 

-

1B 57 F8 3

KeypadLinc 8 Dim V40 - C

1B 57 F8 1

1B 57 F8 1

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Teken/blueman2,

 

We are trying to get to the bottom of the SWL relay issue ... we shall keep you both updated.

 

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

What is the function of 'Responding' when the status of a device is selected in the If of a program?

 

If
       Status  'Bathroom / Bathroom Shower Fan' is Responding

Then
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[LeeG]

The node does not have a red ! communications error posted.

[nlaredo]

I just installed 3.2.4 today.

 

I have tested my switchlinc timers (v.40). They all required a factory reset at the switch + "restore device" in the admin console UI to start reading the countdown time as anything other than 0 or 255 (seemed to vary by switch, all were purchased at the same time).

 

Previous version installed was 3.1.17.

 

Update: The factory reset is absolutely required to get rid of the 0 or 255. I experimented with one of my switches that I hadn't yet fixed and only tried the "restore device" option. Only factory reset + restore device would work to get rid of either the 0 or 255 and/or some "Failed" message that would show. For factory reset, I was able to change LED brightness in the UI to be off, and then I could attempt the reset until the LED was back on after program mode was exited on the device.

 

All of my switchlinc relay timers are showing 15 minutes in the options now.