Automate or not?

[vstolin]

Dear home automation experts,

 

I'm going back and force on a decision to get into home automation project or not. On one side it seems like a nice hobby for a DIYer and with my background in electronics and computer programming this may be an interesting adventure. On another side I have to consider the implications of home automation for other household members. Let's say, I can install irrigation control and perhaps set it to run on some schedule and even check the weather forecast, etc. But then I go on a business trip and my wife just wants to turn on the sprinkler zone 2 for 5 minutes. If i had an Orbit irrigation controller for $50 with remote she could just press a button. With the home automation, if I understand correctly, she would either need to use a KeyPadLink where button 2 corresponds to 'run zone 2 for 5 minutes' or login to the controller using computer or iPad/iPhone and figure how to run the command from there. KeyPadLink may not be a good solution in this case, because she may want to run zone 2 for 10 minutes instead, so it is hard to cover all the combinations.

I realize that one of the main points of the automation is not to run things manually, but my question is what is the experience of existing home automation users with non-tech members of the family using the system? I certainly do not want to install the system so my wife has to call me and ask to start sprinkler from 5 thousand miles away.

 

Thanks in advance for your time.

[apostolakisl]

What you have here is the WAF . . . "wife acceptance factor".

 

The answer to your question can only be answered by you and your wife.

 

Certainly it is possible to predict her needs and provide her with reasonable methods of attaining them in your absence. Essentially it comes down to having a very intuitive GUI. And to a large extent I would say that the perfect GUI has not yet been invented.

 

But consider this. Virtually everything in the Insteon world is manually controllable by someone who has no knowledge of the system at all. Basically, light switches still are light switches. Higher level functions may simply escape the capabilities of some family members. But higher level functions should be optional stuff that goes above and beyond what anyone would need to live a normal life.

 

In my life, I have found that the only issues occur when I first implement something new and I have yet to work out the bugs. In other words, the occasional unanticipated outcome.

[vstolin]

Great reply, thanks - you pointed me into a very specific topic.

I think it is best to stick with devices that either retain 'real' interface (light switch is still a switch and even thermostat is still a thermostat with up and down buttons) or have intuitive GUI, perhaps unit specific, where user experience should be very close to the real world button click.

I'm curious to find what people use to control devices that lost 'real' interface, like irrigation controller for example?

[oberkc]

I tend to use single switches for individual lights, and keypads for other functions, including irrigation, or program delays, or setting home or away status, or garage doors. I also use tablets as a user interface. But I agree with the assassment that the perfect UI has yet to be invented.

[apostolakisl]

I use my Elk panel to control the sprinklers. ISY initiates the automatic cycles via its programs, but the valves are controlled by Elk relays. Elk has a pretty simple user interface for turning outputs on/off that my wife actually can use.

 

In other words, if I wanted to turn on something like "back yard beds", I just click on "outputs" and "back yd bed" and it turns them on.

 

If you were using Insteon, and you had 8 zones, you could dedicate an 8 button kpl to the job with each button being 1 zone. If you push button A for example it could be linked to zone 1. You could manually turn it off by turning off button A, or you could write a program in ISY that turns it off automatically after some period of time. But that time would not be easily adjustable by a non-knowledgeable person. You might set that time to 30 minutes just to make sure it doesn't get forgotten on all day.

[ELA]

Hello Vstolin,

 

I think you are wise to be concerned about how the system will be accepted by others in the home.

Like other members have said I find that my wife is less than interested in any advanced functionality. I try to make any programming changes while she is out of the house.

It can be entertaining when I screw up and miss place my "and" , "or " statements and things do not work as intended the first time.

She is often less than interested in hearing about new features I intend to implement.

 

What caught my attention was your comments about the sprinkler system. I have a 6 zone controller that works just fine as is. I was concerned about implementing the EZflora due to the lack of an easy to use manual interface. I bought the Ezflora a couple of months ago and am yet to install it. Mostly I had decided to wait for the next irrigation season.

I also worried about resale as a potential new owner may not be happy with the learning curve. For that reason I intend to leave the old controller in place so I can easy reconnect it should I sell. I believe a person could run the two in parallel keeping the old system only for manual control if they were careful on the connections.

 

When I do install the Ezflora I will have a 8 button Remotelinc2 as the manual interface. The reason being it will be a great help when working on the sprinkler system heads or blowing out the system. It is so nice to be able to turn valves on/off from outside as needed.

I intend to instruct my wife on the remotelinc 2 usage as the manual control interface should she need it.

 

Come to think of it she never really understood the existing Rain Bird controller anyways ( it was not a real great GUI design) so the Remotelinc2 interface should be even easier for her.

[Exten]

Hi Vistolin

 

One thing I try to remember is:

Don't actually automate in an overly sophisticated manner if that's not really necessary or desirable.

 

We have a washer/dryer cubby with a light above the washer/dryer. There are folding bi-fold doors in front of the washer dryer.

Every time....and I mean EVERY time the bi-fold doors open I want the light to come on.

There is no such thing as a very bright day when I wouldn't want the light to come on.

 

So....I put in a leviton occupancy sensor that has a manually operated button on the front of it for just in case I need the light on

when I'm repairing the washer/dryer.

 

Now, the light comes on and off in a completely automated fashion yet there is zero

programming and zero computer and zero knowledge involved. And any local electrician can understand

and replace the leviton switch. There is value in not needing a fellow geek to understand what's going on.

 

Don't scrimp either. A leviton occupancy sensor that uses ultrasonic as well as IR in the same device is not cheap.

Around $80.00 if not more. You continue to enjoy the convenience of automation long after the cost has worn off.

[Exten]

Sometimes I use a 2 layer approach. I put in something that is very reliable and easy to understand.

This might cost some good $ too. And then lay on top of that an automated control thing of some sort.

Or remote access control....or whatever, for my own convenience and geek factor.

 

From 5,000 miles away it just may be a whole lot more effective to say....

"Just push the blue button, honey." And with Insteon's color button change kits

and custom button engraving I bet you could come up with a dedicated

8 button controller that would make sense and be very easy to use.

Replacement of the 8button keypadlinc is another story though.

Just make sure that the buttonpad is not your only source of control.

[vstolin]

Thanks everybody for sharing your experience - your input is very valuable.

Is combination of remotelinc/kepadlinc and ISY controller capable of counting the number of button clicks?

[LeeG]

Such as do something if the On button is pressed 3 times within 5 seconds, something like that, sure that can be done. Insteon will treat multiple button presses done very close together as a Fast On rather than a simple On so there are some caveats.

 

Can you expand on what the counting of button clicks is to accomplish.

[vstolin]

I wanted to understand if I can assign each button on a remotelinc to a sprinkler zone and each click on the button adds 5 minutes to the zone run time (up to 1 hour max for example).

[LeeG]

ISY Programming can do that. Something like setting an ISY Variable to 5 with the initial button On press. Each subsequent On button press would add 5 to the ISY Variable. Another Program would decrement the ISY Variable by 1 for each minute the Program runs. When the ISY Variable reaches zero the Zone is turned Off.

 

Only one EZFlora Zone can be on at a time.

[ELA]

For when I do implement my Remotelinc -> Ezflora for manual control, I had also thought about multiple button presses to increment the time function.

 

I was concerned about "knowing" that each key press was valid and accepted by the ISY -PLM. Also the need for the user to count button presses and possibly to delay a few seconds between button presses in case communications was marginal and retries were required.

 

For my purposes I think I would only implement that function if I could have some sort of feedback to assure the timer had been set as desired.

For manual control I will most likely use a fixed time of ~10 minutes. I can then resend when it times out if needed or use the off toggle if less time is desired.

 

SYSTEM FEEDBACK

I have been considering adding a voice feedback addition to my install. I have an Arduino controller that reads canned sound files from an SD card. I have been building a circuit that will address various sounds when commanded by the ISY via a multiple output device like the Ezflora or EZIO.

When I initially ordered the Ezflora I thought I might use it for that purpose as well as for sprinklers.

 

For now I am converting the (3) unused Ezflora zone (AC)outputs to a (DC)logic ground true signal to address the Arduino. That way the Ezflora can serve both the sprinklers and 3 voice/sound commands.

I realize that there will be a limitation on the sounds only working or the sprinklers and not both at the same time. ( due to only 1 output on at a time)

 

The EZIO40 may be an option in the future for additional sound addressing as that would provide 15 possible sound selections.

I did not care for the cost of the EZIO8SA when you add the need for a PLM to go with it. It would be nice to be able to address 255 sounds though.

[Xathros]

ELA-

 

Sounds like a fun project. Interfacing to the Arduino via EzFlora sounds a bit clunky to me though. I was under the impression that only one EzFlora zone/output could be active at a time. This seems very limiting for what you are attempting especially if you are trying to activate a sprinkler zone and confirm that it's been done via audio output using the same EzFlora. Isn't there an ethernet shield for the arduino? Couldn't you communicate with that via network resources instead and have an unlimited number of commands/voices avaialble ?

 

If not, have you looked at the CAI Web Control board? it has 16 bits of IO (8 in 8 out) and an insanely easy CGI web interface. You could get 255 combinations out of that.

 

Another option is a PogoPlug running ArchLinux to do the audio playback. This requires a USB autio interface for the PogoPlug however. These are very easily addresses via network resources but will require some coding to build the CGI interface.

 

-Xathros

[pounce]

I have used one of these to automate lawn irrigation controls...and many other things. Network interface and scripting....

 

 

http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html

[Xathros]

I have used one of these to automate lawn irrigation controls...and many other things. Network interface and scripting....

 

 

http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html

 

Purchased! Thanks for the link. Dunno yet exactly where I'll use this yet but I'll find it a good job.

 

-X

[pounce]

They are pretty cool. I have a bunch of the power switches too.

 

Here is a bit on controlling them by http:

 

http://www.digital-loggers.com/http.html

[ELA]

Hello Xanthros,

To be sure there are limitless options, I was just mentioning one which I was implementing given I already had the Arduino available, that was purchased for my daughters project but never used.

 

In my post I stated that the first implementation was just taking advantage of spare Ezflora outputs with the noted limitation ( just because I could) and 255 outputs possible using EZIO8SA.

 

Clunky as it sounds.

[Xathros]

ELA-

 

Gotcha! I need to pick up an Arduino to play with at some point. I used to play with the Parallax Basic Stamp some years ago. I love these little micro controllers.

 

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

-Xathros