How to monitor water temp via ISY and catch more fish!

[jmed999]

This thread will show you how to get water temp (aquarium, pool, pond, etc) into your Insteon/ISY. In my case with a pond it will help me catch more fish. Using the new Insteon wireless thermostat http://www.smarthome.com/2441ZTH/INSTEON-Wireless-Thermostat/p.aspx?green=21036187435 and the waterproof sensor http://www.smarthome.com/2433A3/Waterproof-Temperature-Sensor-for-INSTEON-Wireless-Thermostat/p.aspx you can monitor the temp of any water reservoir.

 

I was told the wireless thermostat would not send the waterproof sensor's temp to the ISY or any software for that matter. And they were right until I came up with this solution. I did some testing, cutting, and soldering and fixed the limitation. Basically, you have to cut the existing thermocouple (see pics) and solder the waterproof sensor wire to the thermostat in the same location. Then put the waterproof sensor in the water. You can add up to 100 feet of 22 gauge wire to the waterproof sensor.

 

Now my neighbor and I get an e-mail every morning telling us the water temp of our 8 acre pond. Using customized notifications I can get the e-mail to tell us what type of lure to use based on the water temp. This is based on guidelines like this... http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Minder-Sticker/dp/B004RDMT7S/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352503719&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=bassminder.

 

This will allow us to catch more fish and chart the water temp. I hope this helps some of you!!!

 

Enjoy!!!

[Brian H]

Thanks for sharing your nice modification.

[terrylund]

I am glad to find this tip, but am more than a little disappointed that the wireless thermostat does not provide a method to log or output the remote (external) temperature. That seems like a serious limitation, which was not at all obvious on the product sheet (at least to me when I looked at it before purchasing it).

[apostolakisl]

I am glad to find this tip, but am more than a little disappointed that the wireless thermostat does not provide a method to log or output the remote (external) temperature. That seems like a serious limitation, which was not at all obvious on the product sheet (at least to me when I looked at it before purchasing it).

 

 

Your issue is one that has come up quite a bit recently in various forms. Basically it comes down to ISY lacking the ability to set the value of a variable using Insteon device input values, Elk input values, thermostat input values, and the like. The ISY firmware developers are working on additional variable functionality which may solve the problem, especially when combined with a program that io_guy wrote that logs ISY variable values.

 

As a current fix, you could use a CAI webcontrol board with a 1-wire temperature sensor. Values from that can post directly to ISY variables, where they can be logged using the program from io_guy I mentioned. Also, ISY has added a new function that lets you write logs directly to a file on ISY's memory card. You need the network module for that to work. I haven't played with it yet so the details are not known to me.

 

io_guy has written a number of really great utilities for ISY, there is no charge but he is happy to take donations. http://automationshack.com/

[Jason Miller]

I just wanted to say thanks for sharing this! I just hooked this up for my reef aquarium. I can now monitor temp from any device and with the ISY device I have alerts to e-mail my wife and I if temp drops. Very very nice! Once I use it for awhile, I plan to do this same setup for my hot tub to avoid issues if heater goes on freezing days.

 

Thank you.

[jmed999]

Glad it has helped someone!

[No Pressure]

My swimmmg pool is all set to go with a thermowell and I'm going to make is modification to a wireless thermostat pending a bit more investigating.

 

3 questions...

 

1. Is the sensor on the wireless thermostat really a thermocouple? From the photos in this post that appears to be the case.

 

2. If it is a thermocouple, what is the type? I use a type T and some J at the office.

 

3. Does the wired thermostat also use a thermocouple?

 

Thanks.

[Brian H]

I don't have one to verify.

 

1. My thoughts are more on the line of a Thermistor that changes resistance with temperature. Over a Thermocouple generating a voltage proportional to temperature.

 

3. The internal photos of the 2441TH and 2441ZTH on the FCC Database both show what looks like the same small Blue Sensor.

 

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ ... Search.cfm

Grantee is SBP

Product Code is the remaining parts of the listed FCC ID.

2441T for the wired.

2441ZT for the wireless.

In the details tab. Photos and test reports.

[No Pressure]

Brian H

 

Over at viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11747 a commenter named WhiteSox presumed it was a thermistor as well. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. I've ordered one along with a thermostat and I'll post what I find when they arrive.

 

As an aside it's odd to me that with all of the great stuff incorporated into the ISY994i that that temperature measurement hasn't become a native feature. I'm going to read more about the CAI option.

[No Pressure]

@jmed999

 

Thanks for developing this modification. I've got it up and running for my pool. Let's just hope I don't catch any fish in there.

 

@BrianH The sensor reads 10K ohms at room temperature (70 Deg F). It's not a thermocouple.

[Brian H]

Thank you for verifying it is a 10K Thermistor.

[chago2013]

Very informative thread. Thanks a million to the original and subsequent posters for it.

 

My question is if anyone has any suggestions on how to make these modifications a little less permanent. In other words, I'd like to be able to revert the mod. In the pictures I see one of the legs of the original sensor has been cut. I'd like to be able to put it back into use.

 

I use a wireless thermostat to monitor and control the temperature inside a freezer I use to ferment home brewed beer. I've had fairly good success in implementing that, except for the fact that I have to keep the thermostat inside the freezer. This hasn't been a problem so far, but I'm concerned condensation or very low temps (38F) will damage the product. Hence the move to use a probe.

 

EDIT: As an alternative, how about simply switching the sensors. I'd install the probe as indicated by the OP, but then install the original sensor in the terminal where the probe would normally go.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

Cheers!

[larryllix]

I don't know if this has been overlooked, misstated as Smarthome often does, or just misread, but the 2441ZTH manual states this.

 

http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2441zth.pdf#page=18

• Sub-mode 05: Chose whether the Internal or External temperature sensor initiates commands (Internal default)

a. Up arrow = External

b. Down arrow = Internal

c. Note that when using two INSTEON Wireless Thermostats with External temperature sensor enabled, each INSTEON Wireless Thermostat will only display its local reading and the INSTEON Thermostat’s reading. (INSTEON Thermostat will display both INSTEON Wireless Thermostats’ readings.)

I have two of them with different firmware revisions but I have no remote probe to prove this works.

 

This may not be supported in ISY as other features, such as humidity output contacts, are not supported.

[chago2013]

The remote sensor works as the documentation says. At least in my case. Changing the setting in question causes the thermostat to issue Cooling/Heating/Off commands based on the temperature sensed by the remote probe instead of the internal sensor.

 

The issues are that 1) The big temp display is always the internal sensor's, regardless of which input is used (internal or external) and, 2) The temperature being reported to the ISY is also always the internal sensor's, so writing logic based on the probe's temperature is not possible.

[jmed999]

The remote sensor works as the documentation says. At least in my case. Changing the setting in question causes the thermostat to issue Cooling/Heating/Off commands based on the temperature sensed by the remote probe instead of the internal sensor.

 

The issues are that 1) The big temp display is always the internal sensor's, regardless of which input is used (internal or external) and, 2) The temperature being reported to the ISY is also always the internal sensor's, so writing logic based on the probe's temperature is not possible.

 

 

This is correct. If the probe's temp was being reported to the ISY it would open many more possibilities.

[chago2013]

So, does anyone have any input on my idea (see a previous post's edit) to swap the probe and the internal sensor, so the probe is soldered to the board, replacing the internal sensor, and the internal sensor is then connected to the wire terminals where the probe would normally go?

 

Would this work?

 

Thanks!

 

Adolfo

[jmed999]

Not sure I follow.

[chago2013]

Not sure I follow.

 

NP.

 

Out of the box, the thermostat has an internal sensor, soldered to the board (see OP's pictures), which is what the unit uses to sense temperature. If you buy the wired probe, you connect it to the wire terminal on the inside of the back cover.

 

Given that the unit reports to the ISY only the temperature of the soldered in sensor, regardless of which sensor/probe it's configured to issue *actions* from, I'm wondering if we can de-solder the internal sensor, solder the probe's wires in its place (again, see pics), and then connect the internal sensor to the wire terminal where the wired probe would normally go.

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

[jmed999]

So do you mean solder the internal sensor to the other end of the wire that is soldered to the stat?

[chago2013]

So do you mean solder the internal sensor to the other end of the wire that is soldered to the stat?

 

Not quite... This would be the step by step process:

 

1. De-solder and completely remove the internal sensor, uncut, undamaged.

2. Solder in the same place the bare wire ends of the wired sensor (which has its own sensor, of course).

(If we stopped here, the unit would now get its internal temperature reading from the wired sensor (this is basically what the OP did).)

3. Connect the removed, original internal sensor to the wire terminal on the inside of the back cover (where the wired sensor would normally go).

 

What we end up with is a reversal of roles: the wired sensor would act as the internal sensor and the internal sensor would act as the wired sensor.

 

Now, I don't know if this would work, from an electronics perspective. Which is why I'm asking if anyone thinks it would.

[larryllix]

So do you mean solder the internal sensor to the other end of the wire that is soldered to the stat?

 

Not quite... This would be the step by step process:

 

1. De-solder and completely remove the internal sensor, uncut, undamaged.

2. Solder in the same place the bare wire ends of the wired sensor (which has its own sensor, of course).

(If we stopped here, the unit would now get its internal temperature reading from the wired sensor (this is basically what the OP did).)

3. Connect the removed, original internal sensor to the wire terminal on the inside of the back cover (where the wired sensor would normally go).

 

What we end up with is a reversal of roles: the wired sensor would act as the internal sensor and the internal sensor would act as the wired sensor.

 

Now, I don't know if this would work, from an electronics perspective. Which is why I'm asking if anyone thinks it would.

Sure. Shouldn't be a problem. The internal one, now wired as external, can be programmed to operate into heat and cooling contact output command triggers in the ISY as well as the external probe could be sent analogue to the ISY for further logic massaging including multiple logic trigger temperature points.

[chadman]

Hi,

I did this with an external probe from another kind of thermometer.  It works and shows the temperature on the large display and reads it back to my ISY994i fine, but as soon as it reaches below zero it displays EE.

 

Does yours display negative temperatures with the smarthome external probe (connected your way with soldering it to the board)?

Thanks.

Chad.

 

This thread will show you how to get water temp (aquarium, pool, pond, etc) into your Insteon/ISY. In my case with a pond it will help me catch more fish. Using the new Insteon wireless thermostat http://www.smarthome.com/2441ZTH/INSTEON-Wireless-Thermostat/p.aspx?green=21036187435 and the waterproof sensor http://www.smarthome.com/2433A3/Waterproof-Temperature-Sensor-for-INSTEON-Wireless-Thermostat/p.aspx you can monitor the temp of any water reservoir.

I was told the wireless thermostat would not send the waterproof sensor's temp to the ISY or any software for that matter. And they were right until I came up with this solution. I did some testing, cutting, and soldering and fixed the limitation. Basically, you have to cut the existing thermocouple (see pics) and solder the waterproof sensor wire to the thermostat in the same location. Then put the waterproof sensor in the water. You can add up to 100 feet of 22 gauge wire to the waterproof sensor.

Now my neighbor and I get an e-mail every morning telling us the water temp of our 8 acre pond. Using customized notifications I can get the e-mail to tell us what type of lure to use based on the water temp. This is based on guidelines like this... http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Minder-Sticker/dp/B004RDMT7S/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352503719&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=bassminder.

This will allow us to catch more fish and chart the water temp. I hope this helps some of you!!!

Enjoy!!!

[Techman]

what is your probe connected to? If it's an Insteon wireless thermostat it won't display negative numbers as it's designed as a room thermostat.

[chadman]

Hi, yes the probe is connected to the insteon 2441zth wireless thermostat.   What a pity it can't display negative numbers.

[larryllix]

Hi, yes the probe is connected to the insteon 2441zth wireless thermostat.   What a pity it can't display negative numbers.

It may not display negative temperatures due to not having a minus sign on the LCD but it may still transmit them to the ISY.