tome Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I have a couple Lamplincs that I bring out during the holidays for various lights. They are 2457D2 type. One of the two keeps shutting off after a while. I am not really sure what is triggering it, I have just been turning it back on when I see it is off. I have done a restore on it a couple times. It is in three scenes and is turned on/off either manually at a Keypadlinc or by a program that just runs from sunset (on) to 11:59pm (off). How can I tell what is shutting it off? The device links table shows: The ISY links table shows: Thanks, -Tom Link to comment
LeeG Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Look at the ISY Log for entries that reflect the device turning On and Off. Based On the link records 14.1D.DD 13.C1.7A and ISY Scene number 19 can affect the device in addition to Direct commands from an ISY Program and perhaps an X10 message which was not discussed. Does the LampLinc have an X10 address assigned to it. It would not be uncommon for powerline noise to cause a device with an X10 address to react. Link to comment
tome Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think it has an X10 address, I didn't configure one anyway, and I usually reset each device before installing it. Here is log output where I turned it on, and half a minute or so later it turns off: Link to comment
apostolakisl Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Check you logs to see if you can't find exactly when it is shutting off and if there are any other activities running at the same time. Certainly if you witness it turning off, pull up your log right then and see what the listed activity is. Possibilities. 1) You have a program that is turning it off. Sometimes these things happen where you left a scene or device in a program by mistake (maybe you were using the device for something else at some other time or you accidentally clicked on the device/scene by mistake instead of the one above/below it). Right click on your programs tree and click "find/replace" and look for the device. Also, do the same for any scenes that it is a member of. 2) You have a legitimate link that shouldn't be there. Check the device "controller" and "responder" list to make sure only the right stuff is there. 3) You have a phantom link. It is possible that ISY thinks the device should have a link that it should not have. Delete the device from ISY entirely and re-add it, then join it back to any scenes/programs it is a part of may fix this. Just because it only lists the proper stuff in the controller/responder list doesn't mean that there isn't a false link in the ISY table. I had this happen once and it was frustrating to work it out. Unfortunately, there could be a phantom link in a different device that is turning it off. Only deleting that device and re-adding will fix this issue. The key to working this problem out is looking at your logs at the time the device shuts off to see what is on the power lines. Link to comment
tome Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 The log above is one of the on/off events. Tom Link to comment
LeeG Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 At 08:24:41 PM device 14.2A.24 turned itself Off. This is likely load sensing turning the LampLinc Off since I doubt it is being reported as turning Off and someone is actually turning the LampLinc or its Load Off. What type of load is connected to the LampLinc? Link to comment
tome Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Look at the ISY Log for entries that reflect the device turning On and Off. Based On the link records 14.1D.DD 13.C1.7A and ISY Scene number 19 can affect the device in addition to Direct commands from an ISY Program and perhaps an X10 message which was not discussed. Does the LampLinc have an X10 address assigned to it. It would not be uncommon for powerline noise to cause a device with an X10 address to react. Hmm, don't see a reason as to why I have it in the scene with 14.1D.DD (which is another Lamplinc)? It is listed as a responder to that 14.1D.DD in that scene. Can you even have a Lamplinc be a responder to another Lamplinc? I don't know why it is in that scene so I am going to delete it from there and see if that fixes anything.... I updated the software several times in the last year and, most recently, just before plugging back in these Lamplincs. I wonder if something got confused between all the updates and then introducing the Lamplincs after a long absence. Thanks for everyone's help. Tom Link to comment
tome Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 At 08:24:41 PM device 14.2A.24 turned itself Off. This is likely load sensing turning the LampLinc Off since I doubt it is being reported as turning Off and someone is actually turning the LampLinc or its Load Off. What type of load is connected to the LampLinc? It is a very small led lit christmas tree. When the Lamplinc is off the leds are very very dimly lit. They won't go fully off. Tom Link to comment
tome Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Removing it from Scene8 didn't help. It just shut off again. Is it due to being too lightly loaded you think? It didn't do this last year and I think we had the same load on it... Tom Link to comment
LeeG Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 "Can you even have a Lamplinc be a responder to another Lamplinc?" Yes. A LampLinc is both a Controller (with manual On/Off buttons on side or load sensing) and a Responder. Add a small night light or wall wart to the LampLinc load. LEDs are not drawing enough current to keep the load sensing from turning the LampLinc Off. Link to comment
apostolakisl Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 1) The LED Christmas lights shouldn't be a problem. I have a lamplinc doing the same thing for 3 years running now. 2) Assuming it isn't a member of all kinds of programs/scenes, a simple thing to do is simply delete the device completely and then re-add to ISY. You might do the same with that other devices listed in the log functioning at the same time. Link to comment
tome Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Lee is right, it is the small load. There is only a single small strand of lights on it, perhaps 24 little leds. If i add something else to it, it comes on just fine. The funny thing is I first tried a small (5vdc output) wall wart. That causes it to flash on off at about 5-10 second intervals. I am sure the switching supply in that wall wart isn't drawing much either. I put a 12vdc output one on and it works fine. I think, however, we will find another decoration or something. Seems a shame to have to suck power for no reason, but at least we can have something festive to show for it Thanks again for the responses. Tom Link to comment
IndyMike Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I have a similar situation happening between two 2457D2's. The devices are setup as controllers (local load sense enabled) of the same scene along with a KPL. I use the LL's as controllers so that my better half can turn one lamp off locally and turn off the scene. Both LL's are connected to 60W incandescent loads. Everything works fine as long as both loads are applied (on locally). If one lamp is off, and the scene is activated, the second lamp will turn off - on - off after an indeterminate period of time. To date I have not been able to catch this in the event viewer - I haven't been monitoring when the "event" happens. I do see the devices intermittently turning on/off in the log. No X10 codes Devices factory reset/restored Waiting to catch them in the act - typically happens when the better half is involved with a good book (i.e. not good for me or Insteon). Link to comment
IndyMike Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Managed to catch one of the DBLL's in the act of activating/de-activating the scene. This does not appear to be in response to any Insteon or X10 activity. Setup for the following log: [*:33j35vnk]2457D2 LL (V.3B) @18.93.83: Load Sense enabled with local Incandescent Lamp turned off. Scene controller[*:33j35vnk]2457D2 LL (V.3B) @18.8F.3C: Load Sense enabled with Local Incandescent Lamp turned ON. Scene controller[*:33j35vnk]2486DWH8 KPL @0A.A9.A5: Button 3 Scene controller[*:33j35vnk]2842 Motion sensor @21.D5.C5: Linked to PLM only (program control for another scene).[*:33j35vnk]Red: 2457 turning on[*:33j35vnk]Blue: 2457 turning off[*:33j35vnk]Black: other (unrelated?) events In the log below, the LL @18.93.83 appears to spontaneously activate and then de-activate 1 second later. There are no consistent Insteon communications associated with this event. The activity only occurs if the local lamp is switched off. If the lamp is on, everything works "swimmingly". Curiously, this only appears to happen during the evening hours. I'm guessing that I have some line voltage variations that occur during the evening that "trick" the LL into thinking that the load has switched on. Some combination of the capacitance in the lamp combining with the current sense and the line voltage... My Wife has complained that the problems only occur when she is alone in the family room curled up with her book. She's accused me of programming the system to PI$$ her off. I of course point out that, after 30+ years of bliss, I hardly need to look for new buttons to push. Unfortunately, after reviewing the logs, she does have a point. The times in the log below line up with "book time". What has me a bit peeved is that this configuration worked for 7 years when I was using my old 2856 Icon LampLincs ('05 vintage). These were installed with local sensing via X10 addresses and worked flawlessly in the same location with the same loads. These finally died (1 triac, 1 power supply failure) and I moved the DB-LL's into place. Am I missing something in the log below? I do not have any of the "old" Lamplincs left. I'm about to try applicancelincs with X10 addresses to restore my Wife's reading time to normal. Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00)Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [ 18 93 83 1] DON 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:09 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [ 18 93 83 1] DOF 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:10 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 21.D5.C5 00.00.01 C7 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [std-Group ] 21.D5.C5-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [ 21 D5 C5 1] DOF 1 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [ 21 D5 C5 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 21.D5.C5 00.00.01 C7 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [std-Group ] 21.D5.C5-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 21.D5.C5 13.00.01 C7 06 00 (00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:51:48 : [std-Group ] 21.D5.C5-->13.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [ 18 93 83 1] DON 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:47 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [ 18 93 83 1] DOF 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:55:48 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [ 18 93 83 1] DON 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:31 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [ 18 93 83 1] DOF 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:32 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:44 : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 16 CF 13 00 Tue 12/11/2012 19:56:44 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.16 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [ 18 93 83 1] DON 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 255 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:33 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [std-Group ] 18.93.83-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [ 18 93 83 1] DOF 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [ 18 8F 3C 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [ 18 93 83 1] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [ A A9 A5 3] ST 0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.93.83 0C.A8.B4 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [std-Cleanup ] 18.93.83-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Tue 12/11/2012 19:58:34 : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Link to comment
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