Insteon TriggerLinc and Elk M1 Zone

[mzanni]

I have the ELK M1, ISY994i and the Elk Module, and here's what I'm trying to do:

 

I need one more exterior door sensor, and it must be wireless due to location. Turns out I have an extra Insteon TriggerLinc so I figured I'd try to get that to act as a zone on my Elk using the ISY. Right there, I'm not even sure if this is possible and/or a good idea. So "nope, don't do it" would be a sad but understandable response.

 

My attempt at this was to set a free zone in the M1 to be EOL and name is "Garage", obviously it starts out in a violated state as nothing is attached to it.

After playing with the programming a bit, I ended up with two programs:

1) Check the Insteon to see if it is closed and if so bypass the zone.

2) Check the Insteon to see if it is open and if so unbypass the zone, thus triggering a violation.

It should be noted that the "If" statement had to also check if the zone was bypassed first, because it is toggling the bypass and needs to know what state it is in before it does so to keep it in the correct state.

 

So, here's the issue - this works fine if the alarm system is NOT ARMED. I get the chime, I can see the zone violated, all is well...however if the alarm is ARMED, nothing. From what I have found online, ISY can't bypass/unbypass when the alarm is armed...so there goes my program out the window. This leads to my next two questions:

Am I completely off base on this one...can I even do what I'm trying to do?

If it can be done, what should I do in the program if not bypass? (I've thought maybe throw a resistor in, but then all I can do it trigger a zone open for a sec before it returns to closed regardless of if the door is still open)

[mzanni]

...so I'm crazy then?

[TJF1960]

Hello mzanni,

Give it some time as there are just a handful of people fully up to speed on Elk that post here. I am sure they will offer suggestions.

[mzanni]

Figured out a solution so I thought I'd share just in case anyone else was curious:

 

There really doesn't seem to be any way to do this programatically, not in a way that would conform to what one would expect from a normal zone. As such I took a hardware approach.

 

(A basic understanding of DIY electronics will help)

The outputs on the Elk M1 will put out 12v @ 50mA when set to on. There is also a constant 12v 50mA output and a ground on the output panel.

Using a project board, I ran the ground (NEG) and Output 16 to a relay. The relay was only rated for 30mA on the input so I dropped a couple of resistors in to drop the amps (this is important if one is going to try this). A quick test turning on the output let me know the relay tripped when I heard the click.

On the other side of the relay I put a 2.2k resister in front of the Normally Closed lead. I then ran one line from that resistor to the Zone 1 neg and a line from the other output of the relay to the POS of Zone 1.

 

The next step was to write a program with ISY, well actually 2.

The first program checks if the INSTEON motion sensor (could be any sensor) was "on" AND Output 16 on the Elk was off, if the conditions are met it turns on Output 16.

The second program checks if the INSTEON motion sensor is "off" AND Output 16 on the Elk is on, if the conditions are met it turns off Output 16.

 

Testing repeatedly has shown it works flawlessly and will show a zone violation in armed or unarmed states when the sensor is tripped.

 

I think, from a security perspective, this is probably not a recommended approach for a few reasons:

1) It relies on some programming to set off the alarm, as opposed to solid-state

2) Network connectivity needs to be available to set the alarm off (this is why it defaults to being EOL closed in my configuration). Should the network be unavailable, the alarm will not be tripped.

 

In the end, the ISY has proven to be exactly what I needed to allow me to go off on crazy tangent projects like this...and I'm having a blast.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi mzanni,

 

Thanks so very much for the detailed instructions.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[apostolakisl]

Great to see you got that working.

 

A couple things that might help you.

 

Elk outputs are 12v and 50ma max (didn't look up the 50ma but I take your word for it). The actually amps is determined by the resistance of the load, it doesn't just always flow 50ma. So a 12v 30ma device will only draw 30ma, no need for resistors. The 50ma rating is only a warning to not use a device that draws more than 50ma since you may damage the Elk. The equation V=IR dictates the situation. V is set by Elk, and R is a property the attached load, I is the result of the other 2. The resistors you added have dropped the voltage presented to the relay. Apparently the relay still works despite the lower voltage. At present, your voltage is getting split up between the resistors and the relay. It will be split up proportionately based on the relative resistances of the relay as compared to the resistance of the resistors (for example if they were equal, then each would be getting half the volts). Since you know that v=ir for each device, and that i must be equal for the two devices (they are in series), and that total voltage is 12v, the following equations apply. Vrelay/Rrelay = Vresistor/Rresistor where Vrelay + Vresistor = 12. The same holds true at home where your typical wall output is rated 120v 15amps. That doesn't mean that everything you plug in gets 15 amps forced through it.

 

Bypassing zones on an armed Elk system is allowed and can be done from Elk rules. I haven't looked into ISY's ability to do so and take your word for it that it can't. If you need to bypass a zone on an armed system, it can always be done from Elk rules. If you want ISY to do something on Elk that only can be done from an Elk rule (like bypass an armed zone), then you need to trip an elk rule from ISY. To do this, use an unused Elk output. Have ISY turn the output on for one second (pick something high that you will never actually have a real voltage connected to, like output 100), and then have an Elk rule tripped by "whenever output 100 turns on, then blah blah blah"

[mzanni]

When I wire up the finished product, I'll post it someplace in a bit more clean and thorough manner...if you think it will be of interest to people.

 

apostolakisl: Amps v. Volts always takes me forever to figure out, which is probably why I should read more, but I'll roll with what you say here and go check it out. Maybe this time it will finally sink in. Running my multi-meter on this thing will give me answers, and I'll post my findings, though I suspect you are correct.

 

In terms of the Elk rule, you are definitely correct, and I had started down that path. I didn't love that idea though, because I still needed to bypass and unbypass a zone, which is (obviously) different behavior than a normally wired zone. While it may be little more than a minor nuisance to see "ready - bypassed" vs "ready", the way it is wired now behaves exactly like a normal zone to the end user (read: my wife).

 

Thanks again to the ISY team and people here at the forum, I have to say it is one of the best supported products I have in my house.