Strange One Way Communication

[wswartz]

Hello,

 

In addition to most of the switches in the house, I have an outbuilding that is also outfitted with Insteon and all controlled by ISY. This install has been in place for about two years with little to no issue.

 

I have several programs that are invoked by switches in the outbuilding. In the last few days, these have all stopped working. If I run the Event Viewer and press any switch in the outbuilding, I get no activity. On the other hand, I can turn switches and scenes on/off from the ISY interface no problem. Not sure if it's helpful, but here's the event log where I turned off a switch in the outbuilding, then back on again from the ISY interface.

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:19 PM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 19 ED 3F 0F 13 00
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:19 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 19.ED.3F 0F 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 19.ED.3F 19.74.C6 23 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 19.ED.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [  19 ED 3F 1]       ST   0
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 19.ED.3F 19.74.C6 23 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 19.ED.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 19 ED 3F 0F 11 FF
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 19.ED.3F 0F 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF)
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 19.ED.3F 19.74.C6 2B 11 FF    LTONRR (FF)
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 19.ED.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [  19 ED 3F 1]       ST 255

Any idea what could cause this and how I would go about diagnosing further?

 

Bill

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Bill,

 

I suspect your PLM is dead. Two tests:

1. Can you please reboot your ISY, then go to Admin Console | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status? If "Not Connected", then your PLM is dead. Otherwise

2. Go to Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Link Table, click on Start, wait for the process to complete and then click on the Count button. How many links do you have?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

It sounds like the PLM has lost some of its link records. The PLM will not pass message activity from a device unless the PLM finds a matching Responder link record for the device. Controlling a device manually from the ISY is not dependent on link records. The fact that the devices respond to Scene On/Off from the Admin Console indicates the devices have their required Responder link records.

 

I suggest doing a Restore Modem (PLM) to rebuild the PLM link database.

[LeeG]

It also looks like whatever is being powered from the tested switch is having a negative effect on comm to the outbuilding. Note the Hops Left=0 count for the Off command where the Hops Left=2 when the device is going from Off to On. That type of response often indicates the load being powered is causing interference.

 

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:19 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 19 ED 3F 0F 13 00

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:19 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 19.ED.3F 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 19.ED.3F 19.74.C6 23 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 19.ED.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [ 19 ED 3F 1] ST 0

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 19.ED.3F 19.74.C6 23 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:20 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 19.ED.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 19 ED 3F 0F 11 FF

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 19.ED.3F 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 19.ED.3F 19.74.C6 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 19.ED.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Fri 02/01/2013 05:39:23 PM : [ 19 ED 3F 1] ST 255

[wswartz]

Thanks for the quick replies. It seems it's worse than I thought.

 

The ISY isn't responding to any action from any switch (not just outbuilding, but whole installation). If I turn a switch on, ISY says it's off. I can do a manual query and will show the proper status. Motion detectors in the house also don't register on ISY.

 

Will try a reboot and see what happens.

 

I looked at the restore modem (PLM). So I have to put all my motion detectors and triggerlincs in set mode? That won't be fun

 

Bill

 

UPDATE: I rebooted the ISY and PLM. ISY reports it is connected to the PLM, but my issue remains. No reporting back from the switches. Also, all my sensors are in an unknown state to ISY.

[LeeG]

The PLM has lost the link database.

 

DO NOT put all the RF only devices into linking mode. They will cancel each other out.

 

Run the Restore Modem (PLM) which will rewrite the PLM link database and may update other devices including attempts at writing to the RF only devices which are asleep and will fail (as expected). Once the Restore Modem is complete, any RF device that has a Green Icon or Red ! to the left of the node(s) should be put into manual linking mode ONE AT A TIME, selecting Write Updates to Device. When the Write Updates to Device is complete for one device move to the next.

 

If the PLM is defective it will not accept the link database rewrite. It may accept the link database rebuild and then lose the database later. No way to determine ahead of time. If it continues to lose the link database it has to be replaced.

.

[wswartz]

Thanks LeeG. The PLM restore seems to have solved the problem (for now?). ISY is reporting switch activity and programs are responding to switches.

 

Before I saw your note, I tried to put them all the sensors in link mode at the same time. As you noted, it didn't work!

 

Doing them one at a time seems to be working.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[LeeG]

You are welcome. You know what to look for now. If the PLM loses the link database again a new PLM is needed.

[wswartz]

Things are pretty much still working but having one oddity. Many of my motion sensors are fast blinking. They still seem to work fine, their LEDs are just strobing. What would cause this?

 

Regarding the original issue, is a PLM Loosing its config something that happens from time to time?

 

Bill

[LeeG]

When a Motion Sensor LED blinks several times when motion is sensed it indicates the motion sensor is not getting an ACK from one of the Responders. This can be a comm issue including RF problems or a Responder has lost a link record so it does not see the motion sensor messages and thus does not send an ACK.

 

A PLM should not lose link records. It does happen from time to time based on the number of times a Restore Modem (PLM) resolves a problem but some might be attributed to an accidental factory reset of the PLM.

 

I have one very old PLM that does lose its link records pretty consistently. It is not connected to any of my ISYs and is used primary for testing against a very old PLM. If it were not that it still functions for powerline communication I would have junked it long ago.

[someguy]

fyi: I just got my third PLM (second brand new one) that keeps losing it's link records. I don't want o highjack this thread, so I'll post elsewhere if it continues to happen, but I wanted to let it beknownst.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi someguy,

 

What's the frequency of PLMs dying?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[someguy]

Sometimes as often as daily before a "restore plm" fixes it. Sometimes it works for a month or two before needing to be restored.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi someguy,

 

This is VERY abnormal and something we have never ever had reported before.

 

How new is your PLM? What's the firmware version on it (Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status)?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[someguy]

Believe it or not, I just replaced my PLM with a brand new one Monday. v9B. This is my third PLM. One had this problem about six months ago and I replaced it. The second one worked for a while, but then started to have the same problem. I called smarthome and they sent me this v9B one and I installed it and did all of the updating, including the proper technique to switch it out. Interestingly, it worked well for 24 hrs and then it "forgot" everything again. I went to "Show PLM Links table" and it was blank when I pressed "start". I did "restore PLM" again and it fixed it and it has worked since (only three days now).

 

Yes, this is quite peculiar (and frustrating, I might add). I made a program that sends me a text message if my ISY hasn't heard from any motion sensors for 9 hours so that I know when this happens.

 

Any thoughts? I'm on 3.3.8

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi someguy,

 

This must be much more than frustrating; this is horrendous.

 

Is it possible to plug your PLM to a different outlet? Also, do you mind sending me an email (support@universal-devices.com) so that I can forward to our reps at SmartHome. We will have to find the root cause and I am sure SmartHome would certainly want to know what's going on.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[someguy]

Hi someguy,

 

This must be much more than frustrating; this is horrendous.

 

Is it possible to plug your PLM to a different outlet? Also, do you mind sending me an email (support@universal-devices.com) so that I can forward to our reps at SmartHome. We will have to find the root cause and I am sure SmartHome would certainly want to know what's going on.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I have the PLM in a dedicated outlet that has a phase coupler on the same line and nothing else on this fuse.

 

I am thinking that I'll need to be having the problem when your team helps me and the problem is that as soon as I recognize the problem, I do a "restore PLM" so that I can get the system back up and going.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi someguy,

 

Thank you. Can we at least agree that you should NOT do another Restore PLM before contacting us?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[someguy]

I sent an email and haven't seen a reply.

[bsobel]

Can I suggest changing the data cable. I'm wondering if a bad one could cause corruption that winds up manifesting this way. Long shot but cheap test.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi someguy,

 

To whom did you send an email?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[someguy]

Hi someguy,

 

To whom did you send an email?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I sent it to the support email as above. I sent another one, just now.

[IndyMike]

Hello Someguy,

 

I realize that this is a rather old thread, but I was researching PLM malfunctions and was wondering where you wound up with this. Were you able to recover the PLM, or did you replace it?

 

As a side note, you mentioned that your PLM is installed in a dedicated outlet with a phase coupler. Where is the power supply for the ISY connected? Is it possibly on the opposite phase?

 

IM

[Teken]

I am subscribing, as I too am interested in the final outcome.

 

Teken . . .

[someguy]

Hello Someguy,

 

I realize that this is a rather old thread, but I was researching PLM malfunctions and was wondering where you wound up with this. Were you able to recover the PLM, or did you replace it?

 

As a side note, you mentioned that your PLM is installed in a dedicated outlet with a phase coupler. Where is the power supply for the ISY connected? Is it possibly on the opposite phase?

 

IM

 

I have not resolved this problem yet. I talked with smarthome and they want me to send them the PLM the next time that it "forgets" everything. Homey can't play that because I cannot be without my automation system for a week or two while I wait until they send me another one or send it back.

 

I don't know whether my power supply is on the opposite phase or not. Should that matter? It is NOT on the same outlet as the PLM.