RPerrault

i never got the difference between the plc/plm/serial/usb stuff - never had a need to but here, i use plm - i thought the functions were essentially the same the underlying physical topology is not a mesh thinking about it - its more ethernet on the legs - hub from the power panel its probably not necessary to understand the underlying physical topology - a logical view is enough to work with the protocol commands and addressing not sure why people think 'mesh' is a superior topology - the superior topology is one that works and works reliably - insteon devices can and do periodically miss a command - its probably an acceptable tradeoff - adding reliability usually means complexity and larger packets and more code

as i understand it one of the functions a plm performs is to insert data on the power line - the data being binary, so a 0 or a 1 - it does this by inserting the data bit on the electrical sine wave when it crosses the x axis - nothing new about that, others have done it - that topology is not a mesh - its more of a star topology since the data travels to your electrical breaker box to access devices on another circuit of the same leg - to traverse to devices on a different leg, i think the data travels to the transformer servicing your house and reenters on the other leg - and through all the homes services by that transformer - hence, the bridging devices needed for all the early insteon devices that did not support rf communication - some of us bitter old timers recall the lies smarthome led us to believe that plm function, inserting data and monitoring the electrical sine wave, is something all insteon devices do - except battery operated devices i suppose - the specs for insteon allow for other devices to repeat the signal, but a provision is made to keep the repeating from continuing for 12 years (hop counts) - i am unsure if there is a provision in the insteon specs for collision detection and recovery (like the first ethernet specs) - my guess is that insteon has no routing function so every command sent on the powerline is a broadcast - all devices see it and only act on the data if it is addressed to them (0a:34:23 or whatever) insteon also sends data via rf - that topology can be called a mesh - my question was 'if a device receives a command via rf, does it repeat that command via both rf and powerline?' - i suspect the answer is yes - because no one talks phase couplers since the disreputable smarthome began to implement both rf and powerline devices (like they lied to us by omission years ago) - if so, the plm function of inserting data on the powerline becomes moot - only a rf communication is needed to get the controlled broadcast storm started on the 'network' another function of the plm seems to be - in order to have a controller - a link is established between the plm and each insteon device - since the insteon hub moved the plm functions into either the hub or the cloud, a plm can be eliminated and its functions handled by a controller - my guess is that the disreputable smarthome group placed setup and control functions issued bythe hub into the cloud - insteon will function without a controller or hub but automated stuff like timers and programmatic functions need the controller - that needs to issue commands to insteon devices - the with the built in rf and/or powerline communications capability function done by the hub (not the cloud) not sure about unix, but the rules of multitasking operating systems prohibit direct input/output by a program - programs issue an i/o request to the operating system and the operating system returns the results to the program - an i/o request can be for data that resides on a 'hard drive' or a print request or whatever - the operating system controls a variety of devices on behalf of itself and programs - a program can construct a record to be written to the hard drive, but it passes that data and request to the operating system the operating system has hardware and 'drivers' for the devices it communicates with the 'links table' (i am told) are in the plm - nothing magical there - the isy has its own list of links - the insteon commands and packet structures are published - we need a device and driver for the operating system to issue the packets to the devices - either on the power line (doable - others have done it) or rf (broadcast/receive also doable) but doing all that does not get over the legal hurdle

worked in a hospital setting - cinderblock construction long straight halls with rooms on each side - wifi computers on the exterior walls - inside a metal enclosure with no external wifi antenna all new access points and the heatmap looked good - but the it guy said the room computers were dropping - so he doubled the access points on the floor this was the result - the access points began to change channels because another ap was using it - which caused another to change - and another - and another - the entire hospital wifi was thrashing with all the aps constantly swapping channels - and the reach of the wifi was decreased - cisco aps power themselves back when coverage overlaps - the heatmap showed the signal not reaching the room computers he never could grasp that more is not always better - paid to have every room wired i was putting a cisco business edition phone system and had the new (at the time) model of wifi phones - 200 of them - with the associated birthing pains of being the first anyway - people always think adding access points will improve things - depending on the ap capabilities, it can make things worse (mesh - backhaul - ecosystem) snicker

um - a switch or a switch ecosystem if i can afford it

wifi can be tricky - depending on the ap - channel hopping if too many are too close - power reduction if another signal intrudes - i wonder if there is a heatmap application available that is vendor agnostic - be a ton of work to maintain such a tool i had access to prime at my last gig

10 access points? about how many square feet?

because you can't never said it was - florid language does not make you sound like you do know what chance oh no - the big one a router is not wifi - it might have wifi capability added let me help you make your point since you can't - you mean the ssid - you think every device would have to be set up again - here again, you are wrong show us a matter device that is cheap flat out don't believe you - flat out don't believe you are capable - flat out doubt an architect would contract you showing up with your router at a 2.5 million dollar home... here exactly the discussion was on matter - is wifi part of the standard? sounds like you already know what the devices will do - the rest of us are waiting for one to be released - ecosystem - right for someone that won't 'rehash' - you sure put a lotta energy into it since no wifi device exists (that you know of) worthy of your sophisticated 2.5 million dollar ecosystem, matter devices will suck one can...eyeroll well i did learn about what a router is - and ssid is - other than that... sounds like you read too - on the forums you live on - and only forums 'em galdurn yungens wit dair fancy readin an new fangled teknogigee'

i don't use programs but do use keypads - and a scene for each setting - on, off, low, medium, high i would - off the top of my head - set up a variable for each setting and pass them to alexa - then program for each - when variable on, set scene on - then reset the variable value not super graceful but i do it with blinds

what potential problems? what are the prices? what flexibility constraints do matter devices have? what capabilities do they lack? how much time does it take to set up? what are the additional management needed?

burned out old hippie who misses his glory days ranting about corporate greed as he sucks at their teat buying their products - (snicker isaidteat) i suspect he would love insteon - seems like they wanted to be the standard for ha but never opened their market to other vendors - how'd that work out for them - but hey - insteon worked with insteon burroughs made a fine mainframe - different architecture than ibm and was superior to ibm in many aspects - burroughs lost insteon lost ibm set the standards that standards organizations adopted almost entirely - for a time - not because every ibm standard was the best - but ibm was the big dawg and ibm products worked - ibm does not have that clout today insteon wanted to be ibm - lutron - they would all like to force us to buy their products and only their products - like those fine insteon thermostats and motion detectors - perhaps reluctantly, the ha companies still in the competition are embracing some type of interoperability - not that echobee is going to accept a lutron rf packet - but with enough bubble gum and shoe strings, it could work i don't know much about matter - but it is a good concept (for consumers - notsomuch for dealers) - not sure the execution of the idea will be successful but if it could shake out a couple of things, it would be great carrier - message traffic carrier - if i were king, powerline, rf and dedicated wiring - choose what you want when you develop a product - but the rf seems to be what people are hung up on - since we probably already have wifi coverage, it makes sense to be to use it - dealers might hate it because when they fail with another frequency, they get to sell the customer more crap - 'mesh, robust' blah packet structure - everyone can tell if the packet is addressed to them the hippie - as many here - does not break out the components of communication - just that a phillips hue light bulb and some chinese knockoff don't both accept 4a as a dim command - so everything sucks for him if he can't plug and play give ud a standard carrier and packet structures and step aside as he unleashes developers to do their nerd stuff - with polygluttonous, you can add support for whatever devices you want to buy - then the hue bulb and the chinese knockoff can both be supported matter might or might not make it - it has some big dawgs behind it and none of them will close if matter fails - lutron might not like it if i can use their blinds and someone else's dimmer - but if matter succeeds, they will probably have to embrace it - they know that - better to be open selling matter compliant blinds than losing everything in a closed system

i yanked it when i sold thought it would be a minus - one reason is that i use a ton of etched button keypads - 'sofa lamp' would be a problem if they had a futon, settee, divan instead or a beer keg sitting by that outlet

oh - sorry - you must be new - ima snarky somba but you are right - i was snarking at the other posts i posted once that i bought a car with 'gesture control' - thought i really needed it - i was wrong driving 4 printers and the occasional phone and tablet - you don't need to get a bmw with gesture control - sounds like you were asking more about brands - which i cannot speak to my point was - if wifi is the only problem - an access point might be cheaper than replacing a router/switch/wifi/firewall/dhcp....device but you will make the right decision - good luck

might want to look at wifi8 since throughput to 4 printers is so bandwidth intensive and time sensitive

i had a tech heavy neurologist experiencing problems with his devices dropping - medical office building environment my access points were detecting rogue devices and reacting - turning off rogue detection, his devices no longer dropped - leaving rogue detection off is not kosher in a medical setting - isolated the problem to a neighboring ob/gyn office - they had a company install 'free' wifi and wall hanging tablets to sell you enemas, ed pills, etc while waiting to see the doctor without knowing the cause, you might be no better off after replacing hardware sounds like one access point would be adequate for your needs - have someone look at the specs and make a recommendation - sales phrases like 'enterprise grade' are buzzwords and meaningless from a technical standpoint should you need more access points than one, the controller is needed for roaming but - you might not need roaming - your printers are probably not scurrying about the place forget all the mesh and wifi6 and all that - you don't need it and none of your current devices can exploit wifi6 your router is probably adequate - however - if you need more ports, a switch (access point would need a port for each one) but i get that you are not wanting or needing a datacenter set up - just be aware that stuff external to you could be the cause - changing your router might solve your problem - or it might not

best thing to do is investigate why devices are dropping - check the log

unifi offers a local option (hardware) that replaces the 'cloud key' either perform the same function - as a wifi controller - primary benefit is to handle roaming between access points - there might be some brands that have the controller function built it - i have never seen it - but a controller is necessary to handle the handoffs between access points

this will set off the safety lectures - i have the insteon on/off switch controlling the food waste disposal to match the dimmer in the same 2 gang box - made sense at the time but having confessed, i'm pathetic - sigh

what kinda freak controls their attic lights? actually - i do too - sigh but ima try to trump you - my attic lights are on a dimmer with frosted light pipe and a lutron screwless plate omg i need an intervention

as i understand it, the structure of the packets is not the mystery - nor are the commands - i think fartlabs published that for their development program someone posted on a rf device they used to see the packets - a sniffer or wireshark type tool that could be used to break all that down - packet structure and commands should not be a problem (if its legal to construct and send them commercially is out of my league) michel has always said insteon needs security but it was not in the specs - as i understand it, insteon traffic is sent through all houses serviced by a transformer - an all off command would be interesting... these packets are tiny - they isy constructs them and passes them to a plm/c/s/u/whatever (fartlabs device) to deliver - that is where the gotcha is - getting the packets sent - inserting data on a powerline seems impossible to me - but its done - sling made devices to send video over powerlines - not sure how good it was broadcasting on a frequency seems easier to me either way - has to have a driver or whatever unix calls it - an interface for a program to pass the data to the operating system - for the operating system to dispatch the packet on the hardware which is why i asked the question - if an insteon device (say dimmer) gets a packet from an rf delivery, does it repeat that packet on both rf and powerline? and powerline delivery repeated on rf? if so, you only need one to work (rf or powerline) to one device to get the hoppin started - until the hoppin count is exhausted

i'm thinking - here - i'm hurling myself down the interstate at 80 - let me push this little button and put my life in rob's hands...

https://www.cepro.com/news/insteon_smartlabs_acquired_ceo_powerline_home_automation_richmond_capital/ ...said Rob Enderle, principal analyst, Enderle Group. “Additionally, Rob Lilleness, with his background helping to build Microsoft’s networking business, is one of the few people that has both the resources and experience to take Smartlabs where I’ve always believed they could go.”

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/richmond-capital-partners-2 he bought it and put himself in charge - via an 'investment firm' he started in 2017 had - only other investment was some cardboard insulation company from the geek wire link As CEO of Medio Systems, Rob Lilleness led the predictive analytics startup through 10 years of growth and an acquisition by HERE Technologies. Lilleness is acquiring Smartlabs via Richmond Capital Partners, a private investment firm he set up to take on IoT companies. Richmond Capital is investing $7.3 million in Smartlabs as part of the acquisition deal. HERE acquired Medio in 2014 to bolster its real-time maps and location services. At the time, HERE was owned by Nokia but in 2015 sold to a handful of German automakers nokia - a nokia connection HERE’s technology is found in a majority of in-car navigation systems across North America and Europe. Lilleness is ready to apply what he learned about the connected car to his new IoT venture. so that $15,000 self driving option is the creation of the same guy that... Prior to Medio, Lilleness served as president and COO of Universal Electronics. Before that, he was a technical product manager for Microsoft. i have a friend that started a company - medical stuff - made a lot of money and expanded - but his wife could not let go of control - so he closed it - said there is an inflection point in a growing company where you get someone with the skills to grow and expand it or get out of the business - my guess is that the dadodadu guy did not know that point

not going to be a lot of help here - but all the rfid sensors i have seen are not powered and you have to be VERY close to the reader - i don't know of any occupancy sensors that do anything but sense ANYTHING moving - cisco does facial recognition with their cameras - none of that helps but it is an interesting application - those collars are 'ultrasonic' it looks like - only thing that comes to mind is adapting some kind of 'invisible fence' hardware

um - the isy and polisy are computers runs some unix version - i have not grep'd in 30 years so i know little of it - but it is a computer reliable too - the specs for that polisy box are impressive for the price - especially since unix is so skinny

of course i win you might try reading the random links i post - might learn what a protocol is - or how to see a 'router' constraint