Algorithm

HokiePerogi, Thanks so much for the update and the added information. This has been mentioned before, and I'll turn this over to Chris, who is the programming expert. In the mean time, the fifth post in this thread contains a workaround, thanks to lutusp: you can break the schedule condition into before/after midnight parts. Please let me know if this works for you. Thanks so much, Darrell

Hi Upstate, You could use IF Status 'MyLight ' is not Off or IF Status 'MyLight' is > Off Either should work.

DJS, very good! That is one of the options discussed in the thread, and there are others for your consideration as well. Please do let us know how it goes.

Hello DJS, Welcome to the forum! Your question is a very good one. The thread 'All Off' button/status -- one more twist discusses several ways of doing what you want. I do hope it will be of help to you. Please let us know how you make out.

Frank, Thank you for your kind words, both here and in some other threads as well!

Hello HokiePerogi, Chris is our expert, and I will defer to him. But from what I can see, your program should work correctly. Would you kindly move the schedule condition to the top of the IF? I really would not expect that to make a difference, but if you have identified a bug, then this might help point it out. Also, please ensure that the Status clause is an And condition and not an Or condition; it will become visible when selected by clicking on it, or when it is not the top clause.

Ah, yes now I understand your Winter clause. The original program looks fine; what was it doing or not doing? For the folder condition, try a time range of from 6:00am to 6:01am.

Hi Chuck. What is the intended purpose of this program, and what is the purpose of the date portion of the condition? That clause will always be true for the next four years. Since all three clauses are AND conditions, and since the date clause is always TRUE, it could be removed from the condition without changing the logic (until 20012/05/01).

Hi Indy! No problem. Thanks for all your contributions to the forum; they are appreciated.

My pleasure. Thanks for the update, Chuck.

Actually, it should work. This is one way of getting extra function from a single switch, making it dual-purpose, which is how it appears Chuck is using it. I just tested it here (the status and control portion), and it works fine. I tried switch is on and is switched on, then turn another load on; if switch if off and is switched off, then turn the other load off. Chuck, have you made any changes recently? Updated firmware, or any thing else?

Yes, I think you would want to add a qualifier, such as the ones you have listed. An alternative would be to have a Home/Away KPL button that you push when you leave, and push again when you return. Upon leaving, it could do things like turn all lights off, or perhaps start an 'Away' schedule to give your house an occupied look for security. Or, if you have a security panel, you could tie it in so that arming/disarming would serve that same function.

No offense given or taken, Mark. Thanks for the feedback. So it was intentional to turn the devices on. Yes, your dual purpose button is a very cool idea. It would be a good example to post either in ISY Example Programs or in How-To, to make it easier to find. It serves as an alternative to the solution at the top of this thread, and gives the user an additional option. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. The more choices available the nicer it is for the user.

Andrew, what happens when you are asleep and no switches are touched for four hours?

Hi Mark, Actually I hope not to be totally ISY free, since ISY is the best way to manage the network ! Seriously, I do understand the question. Yes, you could say the goal is to have as many buttons as is reasonably possible, each carry out it's action without ISY intervention (that is, without intervention in the action, not in the scene management, etc.), so that should ISY for any reason be off-line, the network will continue to function to the greatest degree possible. But as I have said elsewhere, direct linking and ISY triggers can work hand in hand, so that ISY can enhance direct-linked scenes in addition to offering extended capabilities which are not even feasible through direct linking. In the scenario you describe, pressing the F button while it is off, will turn on the two devices to which it is directly linked. Was that your intention? What was being discussed in this thread was an All Off button which, when pressed would always turn the entire scene off, regardless of the state the button was in. In addition, the button is to serve as a status indicator, being on when any device in the scene is on, and off only when all devices in the scene are off, thereby giving a visual sign that all devices are off.

True, but then if my son has his lamps on when I hit my '2nd floor off' button, his lamps will go off but his KPL secondaries will not. Unless of course I keep my 'fix' programs, which will have to run every time I use my '2nd floor off' button and his lamps are on. So, I think I will keep my KPL secondaries in the scene, and my 'fix' program will only run of someone accidentally presses my '2nd floor off' button ON (which really should never happen). Mike, I think you're right. The likelyhood of the '2nd floor off' button being pressed when it is already off is likely much less than that of it's being pressed when the bedroom lamps are on, since it is an 'all off' type button. Therefore the fix program will run less frequently if it fixes the former condition rather than the latter, as you said. Unless of course the 'all off' scene contains many such instances, in which case many fix programs would have to run. Such a situation could be eased by taking all such secondary-responders out of the 'all off' scene and placing them all together into a fix scene. That fix-scene-off would run each time, but it would add only a single command as opposed to several fix commands. So it would seem to depend on the number of instances requiring fixing, and you have found the right solution for your situation. My pleasure. Thanks for the feedback, which should benefit others as well.

Hi Mark. Actually, Mike's '2nd floor off' scene is not a trigger, it is a direct-linked scene. The purpose of the 'On Level 0' is so that the scene effectively turns off whether the button itself is turned on or off. The purpose of having the button in toggle mode is so that, in addition to controlling the scene, it can serve as an indicator for the scene. Full details are in the first post of this thread, which also outlines the advantages of using a direct-linked scene as opposed to a trigger.

Hi Mike, Thanks for taking the time to write out the explanation... I now better understand what you are getting at! Right. If you remove the secondaries from the '2nd floor off' scene as in point 1 above, they should no longer turn on when '2nd floor off' button is turned on.

Oh! Now I'm confused--sorry Mike. Could you describe the problem again with some examples, please?

Mike, good catch--that's an excellent point! Always room for improvement! The only thing I can think of off hand to address this, is to include those KPL secondaries in the status programs. They would not have to be individually controlled sequentially; rather for each such situation one could create a group containing all of the secondaries, then simply turn the group off. This would add one additional command to the control sequence, which may still be preferable to the previous method, for the advantages it gives. It you're game to give this a try, please do let us know how it goes.

Hi aLf, sorry, didn't realize the second ISY was already allotted. Good choice ! Some of the more expensive X-10 switches had scene capability, and status capability with two-way, etc. I don't know about the 2380, and can't find any information about these old switches on SmartHome's site. You mentioned On/Off--are these switches relays as opposed to dimmers? Again, I haven't used the old SmartHome X-10 keypads. Do they send an X-10 code whenever a button is pressed? If so, they will work fine with the ISY. Depending on their capabilities, you might not get all of the niceties of Insteon switches, such as FastOn/FastOff, or even holding to brighten/dim. In any case, I don't think you can use X-10 devices in scenes within ISY. So if your network is strictly X-10, then all of your ISY programming will have to be done with X-10 commands, rather than with ISY scenes. Having said that, if your X-10 switches are scene capable, you can still do amazing things with X-10 scenes and ISY programming. And, you can program ISY to refresh the entire network every half-hour, for example. What I mean is that when you are not at that home, you can have ISY periodically turn all devices off, or set all devices to a known state determined by time-of-day in order to make the house look occupied. This will provide recovery after a power failure (or other times) due to X-10's inclination to turn on unexpectedly or come back in unknown states after a power failure. Using Insteon would add robustness, speed, and perhaps additional capabilities depending on your present X-10 devices. It would also make programming much easier using scenes within ISY.

Hi aLf! Well, you know all the advantages of the ISY, so no need to sell you on that! How much time do you spend in home #2 vs home #1? Is security a consideration? I see several possible courses: 1. Keep your existing setup, since it works. You may even expand it with additional X-10 devices. 2. If you wish to increase your capabilities while remaining strictly X-10 (no Insteon), consider replacing your 1132CUP with an Ocelot. Ocelot is to X-10 what ISY is to Insteon! 3. While remaining X-10, replace your 1132CUP with an ISY. While ISY's X-10 capabilities are getting better, ISY is truly an Insteon controller, and that's where you'll see maximum effectiveness with it, eg. using Insteon scenes. But a mixed Insteon/X-10 network is not really recommended. While most X-10 devices are only one-way, all Insteon devices are, by definition, two-way, and all of these extra transmitters act as sinks, draining away the X-10 signal until the X-10 network no longer functions. 4. Replace the entire network with ISY/Insteon. Again, you already know all of the advantages that brings ! One that may be of major concern to you (though you haven't mentioned it) is the ability to manage home #2 from home #1. It seems to me that it basically comes down to choosing between X-10 and Insteon. If I were making the decision, it would be option 4, hands down! But you must decide what's right for you. One other possibility: The UDI products page shows an ISY-99u (UPB) and ISY-99z (ZWave) as 'Coming Soon'. I know nothing about the time-frame, but if you were interesting in experimenting with, say UPB in home #2, you could always call UDI to find out. I like cats, too!

Mike, are you seeing this only with the newer KPLs? I don't have any of the new ones to test with, but I recall that you formerly had 1.4 KPLs, and also that you were at one time using hard links with non-toggle buttons presumably with the older KPLs. Did you notice this problem in that situation?

Hi Mark. A couple of excellent suggestions from Indy. Just a slight modification to suggestion number one: even though both of the SwitchLincs in each of your pairs is controlling a load, I think that Indy's idea can still work. Consider the switches A and B. Single tap switch A to turn it on as usual. Double tap switch A to turn on load A directly and also, via a program, turn on load B. Same for off. If you want just load B on, single tap switch B as usual; double tapping switch B turns on load B directly and also, via a program, turns on load A. Same for off. So, when you want just one load, use the corresponding switch as usual. When you want both loads, just double tap either switch (on or off). You will loose response time (program vs. direct), but less so than polling; and also ramp rates when double-tapped (not a consideration for relay-controlled devices such as fluorescents). Having said all that, I do think your original idea has merit as long as one or the other of the two signals gets through. Please keep us informed of your progress with this or other ideas.

Hi Michael, This is actually a frequently asked question . After setting the local level/ramp (for any device other than a KeypadLinc), you must reboot the device for the new settings to take effect. You can do this by pulling out the Set button (known as air-gapping) for a few seconds and then pushing gently back in, unplugging the module and replugging, or turning off the breaker for a few seconds.