IndyMike

If I understand correctly, you are worried about "missing" a contact closure on the 2450 OR having it go offline. I don't see a device query anywhere. Is that contained in another program that runs at XX interval?

Snippet from the Insteon developers guide defining All-Link Groups (Group broadcast). Group broadcast is used Every time you activate a Scene. The All-on/All-off command is simply a Scene with a Group #FF (all linked devices).

I am currently using the ISY994 with firmware V5.3.4. It contains All-On/All-Off buttons on the "My Lighting" and "My Network" Tabs. Press either of these and you will get a Broadcast Group All-On/All-Off command to group "FF". For Insteon, group FF is ALL DEVICES. I checked again this AM. The following works like a charm. Hit All-On or All-Off and all of my older devices respond. My newer devices (V.45) do not. The short transmission in the event viewer is the Broadcast group command used (I used All Off) I highlighted the Group # (FF) in the command to show it was for all devices. This is not an error or deficiency. The broadcast group command is part of documented Insteon protocol and group xFF is defined as all devices. What is an anomaly is the "collision" or other event that causes the PLM to transmit the command when something else is being requested (I am assuming here). There are other serial port tools that will allow you to communicated directly with the PLM to generate to command shown below. I actually wrote one using VB years back. The good news is that you don't need them. The ISY994 can do this from the Admin Console. I'm hoping the PolyIsy and Eisy can also.

Curious that the Eisy treats your 2477s that way. I've tried my devices ranging from I1 through I2CS and the ISY994 only writes once. Are you sure you are not seeing an error or Nack when you are writing the 2477S? This could cause the ISY to write a second time when requested. As you inferred the backlight changes are written to EEprom memory on the device. There is a limit to the number of writes the device can undergo. This, I had thought, was the justification for not writing redundant information. I say redundant, because the command is device direct and is fully acknowledged by the device. There is no guessing whether the command was received. Try checking commands for On/Off. These are also device direct commands but do not involve the memory. I think you'll find that the ISY sends the command every time (my 994 does). If the Eisy does not send each command, that is an update. Not wrong, just an update.

@tmorse305, It looks like the Eisy is performing as I would expect it to. When I perform a "backlight change" on a I2CS device I get the same behavior. I believe this is the ISY "remembering" your device backlight. If you are not changing the backlight, there is no work to do (o bytes written). You can perform the same actions using the backlight controls on the Admin Console (on ISY994 - not sure about Eisy). If your device is not responding to the initial change, it should be giving a NACK or a timeout. You should be able to see this in the Logs. 1st write (valid change) Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:10 AM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:10 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 41 1E 09 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:10 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 41.1E.09 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06 (00) Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:10 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 41.1E.09 53.BC.3A 2F 2F 00 (00) Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:10 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 41.1E.09-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:10 AM : [INST-ERX ] 02 51 41 1E 09 53 BC 3A 15 2F 00 00 01 0F FF 20 A2 00 53 BC 3A FF 1F 01 98 Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:10 AM : [Ext-Direct ] 41.1E.09-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:11 AM : [41 1E 9 1 ] Memory : Write dbAddr=0x0264 [00] cmd1=0x2E cmd2=0x00 Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:11 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 41 1E 09 1F 2E 00 00 07 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CB Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:11 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 41.1E.09 1F 2E 00 00 07 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CB 06 (00) Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:11 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 41.1E.09 53.BC.3A 2F 2E 00 (00) Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:11 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 41.1E.09-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:11 AM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices 2nd write (redundant change) Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:14 AM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices Wed 01/10/2024 09:57:14 AM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

The secondary buttons do not really have an ON/OFF associated with them. They show up as "keypessed" events in Home Assistant. Think of the events as momentary rather than state events. Youtube of the "keypressed" event in HomeAssistant - Skip to 11:25 Testing scene buttons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87jquTZ4B_U

Got it. I see now that you originally stated that the device is a new I3 paddle. The Eisy side of communications looks correct (good command syntax). The device should be going to 20%. Possible that the new I3 devices also have a new rule book. We'll need to keep an eye out for that as experience with these devices grows.

That's rather curious. The Insteon command tables do allow for a "Fast On' to a specific level (second to the last entry below). I have never seen it used by the ISY994, nor do I know how to construct the command using any of the ISY994 program features. I can manually generate the command using command line tools and dimmers will respond appropriately. 1) Your EISY event viewer shows the transmission of a "Fast On" to a level of 33(hex). This is equivalent to 20%. 2) The PLM acknowledges the 20% on command. 3) Your target device responds and acknowledges the 20% on. But the device goes to 100%??? I was originally impressed that the EISY would recognize that your device has a local on level of 20% and that fast on commands would sent it there. A nice touch. Now I'm not sure what to think. The command looks correct. It's possible that the device itself has an issue. Is it very old or very new (I3)? Nothing to be concerned about. Just something for us dweeb tech types to mull over.

It looks like you executed a "fast on" device direct command to address 60.2B.E0 telling it to go to 20% level. To be honest, I did not realize this was possible. I had always assumed that Fast On commands applied to 100% level. Regardless, you did receive two valid responses. There are times when duplicate responses are received. The second response could be from a "repeating" device on the opposite phase of your home or "other". I don't believe this is an issue. Edit: I was able to reproduce on my system. I was repeatedly sending a "Fast ON' to a distant device in my system. The thinking being that a distant device would be more likely to produce a Hop "Echo". I received two duplicate responses in about 30 attempts. Again, I think this is a simple artifact of the multiple HOP architecture of Insteon. I would not be concerned.

Based on my rather limited testing, your IOlinc (V.41) would be susceptible and your Siren (V.46) would not be. My testing of devices in my home is located here : https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/41651-all-on-removed-in-what-firmware-version-of-switchlinc-dimmers/?do=findComment&comment=369748 You could also try executing a "all-on" command from the Eisy. Not sure if it's still available in the Eisy. It's located at the bottom of the "My-Lighting" screen on the ISY994. Best to try this when family members are not around

I am assuming that your Siren and GDO are not members of any scenes or programs. You can check scenes by looking at the device in the admin console and looking at the membership tree to the right. You can check program membership by right clicking on any program and selecting "find/replace". Search for your I/O linc and you will be able to cycle through all the programs that it is used in. I'm going to out on a limb and assume that you've already checked this. While it's possible that you encountered an electrical "even" that triggered the 2450, it's highly unlikely that the event would trigger the second floor 2868 at the same time (multiple times). The other possibility would be a "all on event". This purportedly involves a communication collision the generate a "all-on" (or all off) command to all Insteon devices. All affected devices activate. I say affected because Smartlabs has removed the command from more recent modules. It is possible that your 2450 and 2868 were produced prior to Smartlabs removing the command. Please post your device version, firmware and date code

@jhoulihan, not a complete solution, but you could hit save your configuration to a desktop file. You will need to manually enter your address (again) so the IOX finder sees the ISY. The simply press "save" and put the file in a convenient location. You can leave the default name or create something new that you'll remember. The next time the IOX finder "forgets" the address, simply load the file from the desktop. https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/39489-iox-finder-not-found/?do=findComment&comment=354467

Glad it worked. Hopefully if functions as long as your Icon KPL.

Good idea adding the notification... I'm assuming this is the "new" follow-up program that is talking directly to the devices - correct? Are you still running your scene program and does it still fail to shut off the outdoor lights? Are these lights on GFCI circuits (outside and garage)? I am not familiar with the 'Holiday controller' date control. Assuming the program triggers, the device direct communication should be the same as if you turned the devices off from the Admin console. The PLM will issue device cleanup after each command and will retry communication 5x to devices that do not respond. My only other comment would be to make sure you don't have any other programs running at the same time. The Waits are effective at separating the PLM communication events WITHIN the program. If you have multiple programs executing the ISY could insert communication from other programs within the waits. This normally would be a huge concern, but if your PLM is performing retries to a problem device, it might abandon the cleanup in favor of the new command.

Just noticed that your problem lights were outside - i.e. on GFI outlets. GFI's can sometimes degrade powerline communication. What model Insteon devices are you using outside - are they dual band? Can you temporarily bypass the GFI for testing purposes? To @apostolakisl's point above. Much of this revolves around your programs. Please post them.

There are a few misconceptions regarding the protocol and how the ISY handles scenes - 1) Scenes - ISY scenes do not interrogate members to determine if they have responded correctly. As a result, there are no PLM retries used. The ISY assumes that the scene executed properly. The scenes are a single command and are very fast. Since there is no additional communication between the PLM and responders, scene commands in programs normally do not require delays. 2) Device direct commands (admin console) - Device cleanup commands are used to determine if the device has responded properly. If it does not, the PLM will re-try the command xx times. PLM retries are invisible to the ISY. 3) Device direct commands (programs) - Similar to commands executed from the admin console, cleanup commands are issued. The difference here is that the PLM can be overloaded if commands are "chained" and it will abandon cleanup attempts. This is where you need to insert delay between commands to give the PLM time to issue cleanup messages and retries. 4) Device cleanup retries (advanced menu for the devices) - This is for adjusting the #of retries that devices use to communicate with the PLM (not PLM to device). It will have no effect on scenes initiated by the ISY. It is only available on newer devices. https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY994i:INSTEON_Device 5) ISY Retries - ISY retries are used when querying a device. To my surprise, they do not appear to be used for device direct commands (anymore??). Retries default to 2 and can be changed by using Telnet to connect to the ISY Shell. Use "CR" max command retries. I do not advise adjusting beyond 2 as this significantly bogs down the ISY. https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Advanced_Configuration_Guide#CR_-_Max_Device_Command_Retries

My ISY994 does respond to a ping.

That's a classic no-response from a device. The ISY tried to query the device 3 times and received nothing back. Below is and an example of a correct response vs timeout. Your device address (42.D7.A8) indicates that the dimmer is reasonably new (V.45 firmware). It's newer than most of the devices I am using. Unlikely that 3 devices on the same circuit would suddenly all develop problems. If your equipment closet is on the same circuit as the dimmers, you may want to consider filtering devices.

You are not communicating with this device. The ISY is retrying the query after a timeout. Note - the PLM also retries XX times between each of these commands (invisible to the ISY). You're having severe communication issues to this location. Any new devices hanging on your powerline (i.e. Christmas decorations)?

I looks like you may have "Factory Reset" your KPL (erased the link table) and then performed a query. If that is the case, the device is responding with errors and NAK's (negative acknowledges) because it is an I2CS device and is not longer linked to your PLM. I factory reset one of my Test KPL's and got a very similar response. One curious difference is that my ISY994 is using the I2CS protocol to talk to the device. Your log does not show the "CS" (using I2 protocol). That may be a simple difference in presentation (not sure what system you are using). Normally this would be rectified by simply "restoring" the device from the admin console.

As a last, last, last attempt, I dug out an old V1.65 2486D (2007 vintage). Replaced my existing test KPL with the old unit and verified no errors in the link table. Guess what - I behaves EXACTLY as you have described. The buttons work perfectly from the KPL. Activating the scenes from the Admin Console causes all 4 secondary button to light. Go figure. The extremely old revisions are not compatible. Newer versions are. Now you have two reasons to replace your device. Sorry

I understand. That's why I started by reproducing your scene using two different vintage KPL's on my ISY994. This, plus that you have link table errors across multiple reset/restore cycles, makes me believe that your device is failing. Could there be two different things going on? Absolutely. You could have a failing device and a problem with the Polisy firmware. Even so, when I look at your link tables, they appear to be at least partially correct. The highlighted section below is for group #48. It should turn button 3 on, and turn off buttons 4, 5, and 6. It's analogous to your "Exercise Room Fan High" scene. Unfortunately, that's not what you experienced. All of your secondary buttons turned on. The Polisy appears to have written this section of the table correctly. The device is simply not executing it correctly when you call scene #48 ("Exercise Room Fan High") from the admin console. If the table is written correctly, and we are ruling out bad communications, that leaves a bad device.

I checked my "used device box". My KPL from the same date range was made in 2007. This was back when you could buy a KPL for under $20 (Icon's were under $10). I removed it because it had a nasty habit of corrupting it's link table. These older devices used a very simple power supply described in Microchip: AN954 They were rather intolerant of input supply variation (poor 120V regulation) and most died an early death because of this. The fact you and I have devices in this date range still operating indicates we owe our local Power Co. a word of thanks. Older devices develop problems regulating their internal 5V supply as the C2 cap begins to fail. One of the symptoms is inability to maintain voltage during the EEprom write cycle. I believe this is what you are experiencing now. On a good note, the newer devices with switching power supplies draw far less standby power. You'll be knocking 0.5W off your utility bill.

The device record mismatch @location 0F70 is showing a controller address of 51.1F.B3. The ISY is showing a controller address of 51.10.B3 at the same location - I'm guessing this is the address of your PLM. This type of error should NEVER happen. You either have horrible communication (noise/failing PLM/etc), which you have not observed, or you have a failing device. Your KPL address is 05.16.14. I have 1 remaining device in that address range. It's an I1 ICON switch. I would classify that as ancient (and I drive 50 year old cars). It may be time to let go and try a new(er) KPL. The one I tested above was from 2012.

The responders behavior is mostly contained in the responder link table. That's what I tried to show in my overly complicated post above. When I activate my "Test KPL High" scene, the ISY transmits the following group broadcast command to group 00.00.37 In this simple test case, we are instructing button 3 to turn on and buttons 4, 5, and 6 to turn off. All of that functionality is contained in the device link table. That's why I was concerned that your link table had issues after a restore. This is a simple instance with only 1 group responder. The scene could include every device in your installation. Each group member would have an entry telling it how to respond to the broadcast group 00.00.37 command