IndyMike

Hello Lou, If you'll allow me to rephrase your question: Q: Will a device that is set to "off" in a scene cause a scene test failure. I believe the answer is no. i just tried setting one of my dimmers to "off" in my basement scene (7 devices). The scene test commands the scene on (my dimmer turns off) and all devices pass the test.

Illusion, I do not think our problems are related. My unit simply shuts down after a time and does not transmit anything when it does. I attribute this to years of being connected to dimmable CFL's. They may be dimmable, but they cause 40V spikes on the line when they switch. I have never seen an instance where an Insteon unit would register a paddle press when no one is around. At the same time, I don't monitor my switches via email notification. Again, your original instinct was probably a good one. Call SH and explain the problem. Even if the unit is out of warranty, they may be interested in determining what is going on.

Yet another swing and a miss... As luck would have it, I have the exact opposite problem occurring with a SWL dimmer. After being on for a long period of time, the unit turns will turn itself off. Re-activating the switch after the first off event will cause the unit to turn off within a couple of minutes. No communication activity logged at all. I finally removed the switch from the ISY and performed a factory reset - still powers down after XX time. Unfortunately this is in the "boss's" work area (kitchen). It's a 5 year old dimmer that has been connected to 6 dimmable PAR30 CFL's for years now. I fear that the CFL's have finally degraded the triac output of the switch. I replaced the switch with a relay unit to maintain harmony. Actually, harmony had already gone out the window during my troubleshooting (comments dealing with "foot" and "donkey"). After 30 years, she still has no sense of humor when the lights go off while she's cooking. Hope you resolve your situation without duress.

Hello Illusion, It's possible that you have a fluorescent or "other load" in the bathroom that is spiking the line and fooling the switch into turning on. Although I haven't experienced this with Insteon units, I've seen it with X10 and other devices. It has nothing to do with communication. Instead, it is a line spike that somehow makes it to the micro itself. I currently have a Leviton fan timer (5, 10, 20, 30 min) in my master bath that can be activated by switching my closet florescent on/off. It is a rare occurrence, but it does happen. Neither is a "communicating" device. Your first instinct to replace the switch is probably a good one. If the replacement acts up, I could look for troublesome loads switching on the same circuit.

Installed with no problems. I can confirm that the "compare links" function has been corrected. Unfortunately, I had not performed due diligence on 2.8.5... On both 2.8.5 and .6 versions, after first opening the admin console - 1) Right clicking a device on the tree and selecting "show device links" results in only the 1st link being displayed. 2) Performing the device link display from the tools menu works as normal. 3) Subsequent right clicks from the device tree perform the "show device links" function properly (entire list displayed). Closing the admin console and restarting will reset at 1) above. My apologies for not bringing this up sooner.

Michel, The compare feature is absolutely not a rush item. With your new context menu I can easily bring up a device link table and the ISY table side by side. Not quite as convenient, but it will certainly do for now. Thank you for the offer, but please focus on the many other requests that we forum members are posing for the team.

UDI team, Thank you again for all the effort. You really should take more credit for the fixes and enhancements you make in the product: Bug Fixes - 369: Contextual menu does not work when event viewer is in the way Confirmed - this was a big one for me. It's rare that I don't have the event viewer open, and on level 3. Previously, I was constantly moving the viewer around to allow the context menu to function. Enhancements - 222: Immediate level setting for dimmers (in addition to Dim/Bright buttons) Very nice - I've used this extensively already. I've been mapping the power curves of both incandescent and CFL lights. By clicking below the setting "bar", I can adjust levels in 1% increments using the cursor keys. A huge time savings. - 370: Event Viewer levels are now in a list (instead of a popup dialog) I'm a keyboard person - I really appreciate the use of lists rather than constant popup's. Nicely done. - 391: Diagnostics context menu on nodes This item is the real reason for my post: 1) Right clicking on a device brings up a menu that now includes diagnostics (show device links and show ISY links). 2) Right clicking on a scene again brings up a menu including diagnostics. For scenes, this allow you to perform a "scene test". This little improvement has quite simply made my day. I can't tell you how many times I used the drop down menus to search for a scene (scene test) or device (show device links) only to grab the wrong one. Being able to select from the tree will cut down significantly on my incorrect selections and subsequent trips to the refrigerator (while waiting for the wrong scene test/link table display to complete). I can feel my health improving already. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be 100% good news. I have not been able to get the "compare" function to work in the "show device links" function. Nonetheless - thank you your never ceasing presence on the forum and all the hard work on the product, IM

I thought I remembered where the dimmers were rated for magnetic LV loads - I can't find any evidence of that now. I may be remembering the X10 line. One comment on the overshoot near the zero crossing - this is substantial and I have not seen this with capacitive loads. I'd be interested in how this is referred to the line input of the switch. It would be occurring in the area (time frame) where Insteon messages are located.

Hello ergodic, Thank you for the plots. I haven't tried a dimmer output into an inductive load. As I was staring at my ongoing test setup this weekend, I came to two conclusions: 1) My plots above were generated with a 0.1u capacitive load. 2) I didn't have the proper load for your application 3) You've already performed the "acid test" when you hooked up your transformer and monitored the temperature. Sorry, I should have posted back earlier.

Hello CLU, Welcome to the forum. If you are using a dimmer, you could set the ramp rate to allow you to exit the area (1 minute or so). This would not require program intervention. If you want full brightness for 10 seconds your could use the maximum dim interval (9 minutes on some devices). You would then use a "fast off" command in your program. If Control "bathroom" is switched off Then wait 10 seconds set "bathroom" fast off I don't have a good solution if you are using a relay - there isn't a way to override the local switch function. You could install a Keypadlinc near the switch and use a secondary button (and program) to turn off the relay.

In that case I'll try the output of a newer SL dimmer. I've just put one on a long term power consumption test. These newer units appear completely different than my older models. This particular model isn't even registering on my Kill A Watt (previous units drew ~1W). A quick look at the components shows some significant changes as well. The old models had some rather large electrolytic and ceramic caps. These are gone on the newer models. The inductor appears to have at least 2x the turns on the newer units. I'm hoping the output performance is improved on these units. I'll try to get you some plots by the weekend.

Hello Ergodic, The following shows a pretty healthy DC content from a LampLinc. Don't remember what the Dim level was. This was likely from my "old" V1.0 LampLinc that I typically use for test purposes. It's possible that later units or SWL's preform better (since the SWL's are sometimes used for fan control). What type/version device are you using.

Hi Darrell, From the men-of-few-words department - Thoroughly , but that's my problem not yours... Exactly correct. As I posted in the "other" thread, devices with good PF are friendly to powerline communication and the utilities. Devices with poor PF (CFL's and such) cause problems with both powerline communication and long term problems with utilities. In the past, the current draw from these devices was below the radar. This is beginning to change. Other countries have adopted PF and HD (harmonic distortion) requirements for consumer devices. This will cost more in the short run, but should save us money (infrastructure-ultilities-tax dollars) down the road. So much for the few words attempt. Tried it, couldn't make it work. IM

Hello Darrell, At one time I had a link to a really nice description of the Electro-mechanical power meter construction and theory. I can't find that now... With some quick searching, the best description I could come up with is the Wikipedia site - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter These meters use totally analog current and voltage transformers to generate a magnetic force on the aluminum disk. Since it is a true analog system, the force is proportional to the Voltage and current at a particular instant in time. Power that is being drawn out of phase (high current/ low voltage) will create less magnet force on the disk. Power that is being drawn in phase (high current/high voltage) will create high force on the disk. In reality, you will have many devices in your home drawing power at various phase angles. The analog meter, being a true "averaging device", will sum all of these forces on the aluminum wheel and produce a "total in-phase" power equivalent. Being an old ****, I both love and trust the elegance of the analog design. When I read the descriptions of the new electronic meters, my brain begins to hurt. Hope I answered your question, IM

Hello midrar, Please see (some) answers below. Then statements will be executed in the order entered. Rather than executing a bunch of individual statements, you may want to create a "Scene" with multiple modules. You can then use one simple statement to turn the "Scene" on or off. The only place that I currently use "wait" statements is between X10 and Insteon commands. Here's an example of a "night" condition - The dim levels are for backlight control and are for the entire KPL (not individual buttons). Create a scene with the Keypadlinc button that you want to control (i.e. xxx program status). You will then be able to control the "Scene" from your then statement.

Sorry UpState, Just saw that you wanted you program to re-start immediately. I think that will require two programs. You'll also want to play with the wait times - this can put a pretty heavy load on your system. Query Timer If From Sunrise To Sunset (same day) And Program 'Query Program' is False Then Run Program 'Query Program' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Query Program If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set Scene 'SC Outside Off' Query Wait 5 seconds Set Scene 'SC BSMT Game' Query Wait 5 seconds Run Program 'Query Program' (Else Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Hello Upstate, I use the following to periodically poll my outdoor lights during the day. To do what you have described, you could query individual devices (with delays between) or scenes (again with delays between). Setting the "Last Run Time" will determine how often the program executes. Note that the "Last Run Time" is when the program STARTS execution. If you have a long query sequence (minutes) you'll need to be careful not to set the iteration time too short - I'm not sure what would occur (multiple instances or program re-starts and misses statements at the end). If From Sunrise + 1 minute To Sunset - 10 minutes (same day) And Time is Last Run Time for 'Outside Daytime Poll' + 30 minutes Then Set Scene 'SC Outside Sunset' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Exactly correct - although in this particular instance it would have made gallons of sense. I had viewed the "rain input" terminals on the Hunter controller as a simple program enable. What I failed to recognize is that, when the the irrigation programs were running, cycling the "rain input" would directly control the sprinkler valves. Rapid cycling of the valve led to repeated water hammer and the failure of the PCV. I have since been using Rand's suggestion of the 5 minute wait, which effectively filters input changes. I've been monitoring for over a month now and have not noticed any cycling (I can see that it should work, but I have to monitor to verify). I don't think I ever properly thanked Rand for his input, and wish to correct that now. Thank you Rand - for a guy who used to work the high steel, you are one heck of a programmer. IM

Hello Alf, To add a bit to Rand's comments (that I totally agree with), much of the life of an incandescent bulb is used during initial turn-on when the filament is cold. When the filament is cold it will exhibit a much lower resistance than in it's normal operating state. When used with a relay, this produces inrush current that can be 10 to 20 times the steady state current draw of the bulb. This creates and incredible thermal shock in the bulb filament. A typical bulb that is rapidly cycled will not last nearly as long as a bulb that is left on continuously. When an incandescent is use with a "soft start" dimmer, this inrush is greatly reduced and the bulb life greatly extended. I've never seen any estimates on how limiting inrush can improve bulb life. However, there are documented relationships for applied voltage and bulb life - a 5% reduction in applied voltage can double an incandescent life. A typical dimmer at 100% output does not supply 100% voltage (more like 98%). Dimming down further will further increase the life of the filament (again I don't have number - this is not a linear relationship). I have used both Insteon relay and dimmer units in my home since 2005. I have not noticed a reliability difference between the two. The big question is what type of load you intend to use. If you plan to convert to CFL in the future, you will need either a dimmer/dimmable CFL or a relay/standard CFL. Beware that the relay units are only rated for 480W Incandescent because of the current inrush. If you have large incandescent loads (chandeliers) you may not be able to use them. Since we mentioned CFLs (well I did anyway), be careful in calculating the payback on these units. My experience has been the the life of a CFL is overstated, while the life of an incandescent on a "soft start" dimmer is greatly understated. Since the cost of the incandescent bulb is a factor in the payback, consider that your bulbs will last much longer on a dimmer than advertised. IM

Hopefully Paul has been active on the forum since this post. His SWL V.35's are likely the issue he is chasing, not the AP's.

Hello MarkGram, MarkSanctuary nailed the explanation - I am requesting a status update of the members of my "Outside sunset" scene. If one of these devices comes back with a Status of > Off, it will trigger the second program to turn them off after 2 minutes. I do this to ensure that I don't have outside lights burning during the Day (infuriates me). As I had stated previously, this is a backup (may not be required for most installations). If the insteon system is working properly, the ISY will know whether the lights are on without the separate Query. I did this because I am using dimmable CFL's for my outside lights. These bulbs generate a lot of noise at lower Dim levels. The noise also varies with outside temperature. I had a number of occasions during the past winter when the Switches would not respond to the initial off command due to morning temperatures below -10F. The query program is a backup to repeatedly sample/turn off the lights prior to my returning home from work (saves on burst blood vessels in my brain).

Hi Mark, During the daytime I run a query on my outside lamps. If one is inadvertently switched on, the periodic query will pick it up and trigger the Daytime Status program. Note that this is really a belt and suspenders approach. It the Switches are communicating properly, the Daytime Status Program should detect the on condition itself and shut the lamps down after 2 minutes. Outside Daytime Poll If From Sunrise + 1 minute To Sunset - 10 minutes (same day) And Time is Last Run Time for 'Outside Daytime Poll' + 30 minutes Then Set Scene 'SC Outside Sunset' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Daytime Status Off Program If From Sunrise + 1 minute To Sunset - 10 minutes (same day) And ( Status 'Entry Deck' > Off Or Status 'Mud KPL 1 - Entry Garage' > Off Or Status 'Entry Patio' > Off Or Status 'Entry Porch' > Off ) Then Wait 2 minutes Set Scene 'SC Ouside Night' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Hello Mark, In your program below, when you set the bathroom light to off your "if" condition will become false (i.e the bathroom light status is no longer "on"). The remainder of your then statements may not execute. Try using a control condition for your if statement instead (i.e. If bathroom light is switched on). This should prevent the statements in your "then" loop from re-triggering the program.

Rand, That's a slick approach. Effectively using the 5 minute wait to make sure that the condition persists - I like it. I'm assuming that your WB update rate is less than the 5 minute wait period (1 min?). At present, my WB update is set to 30 minutes. Regardless, I am going to use your 5 minute wait as a precaution for those times when I'm playing with the WB update. Thanks, IM

Sorry Brad, I was mixing your post with IO_Guy's. I missed the fact that you were installing a Whole House Fan (thought you were activating the furnace fan for circulation). Your 220V fan sounds rather massive. Are you sure you require a unit this size? I have a 120V whole house fan in the second floor of my 4500 sq foot house. During the spring I run this for roughly an hour prior to "sleepy time" to cool the second floor and attic. Don't remember the CFM rating, but I need multiple windows open a significant amount to prevent loading the fan. Your approach of monitoring window status with the Elk is a nice touch to ensure you have some makeup air. However, this won't tell you how far your windows are open - i.e. a cracked window may provide an open status. If you have insufficient makeup air the airflow will be drawn from sources you don't intend (septic vents, bathroom vents, etc). If you have double hung windows (I have casements), you could monitor a second "open" position to guarantee minimum open area. Sorry, I don't have any experience with the Venstar thermostats. IM