IndyMike

Alf, Yes, as long as the current draw is below 15A you should be OK. The 500W / 12V = Output current. You are looking for the input current to the transformer. As Rand indicated, the transformer isn't 100% efficient. Most run above 90% efficiency, but some are designed to be less efficient to protect themselves from output shorts. To be safe, use 80% efficiency - 500W/.8 = 625 W input power Input Current = 625W/120V = 5.2 Amps (plenty of margin). Incorrect Edit: Just looked at the back of an old Switchlinc Relay unit - The label stipulates 13A resistive/480W Incandescent and Inductive. This is the only place I've ever seen an Inductive rating for a relay unit. The website ratings for the relay units are "non-specific and misleading" in regard to Inductive loads. While I believe that a 480W rating is conservative for an inductive load, it is what SH has certified the device to. Please disregard my earlier comments regarding a 15A rating for inductive loads.

Hello Alf, Sorry I'm a bit slow on the reply... Since your outdoor lighting will be powered through the transformer the load will appear inductive to the InlineLinc. SH rates the InlineLinc at 15A inductive. The incandescent rating on the Inlinelinc is due to inrush current that occurs when an incandescent lamp is first turned on. This inrush can be 10X the normal current for the bulb. For a 500W incandescent this would be on the order of 42 amps. On the flip side, transformers also demand inrush current when first switched on. The amount of current demanded is far less predictable (depends on the transformer type, where the AC signal is at turn on, and residual magnetism in the core) and can actually exceed that of an incandescent bulb. The fact that SH rates the relay contacts of the Inlinelinc at 15A implies that they are either using compensation or consider the likelihood (rate of occurrence) of a max inrush as small. Edit - this is incorrect. The website information is misleading. The label on the back of the relay devices (V2.5 Switchlinc) specified 480W Incandescent and Inductive. So much for the long hair stuff - I was browsing some sites the other day and came across an interesting guide for planning outdoor lighting. Most of my outdoor lighting is far lower power than what you're planning. At 500 watts, you'll need to plan your system to avoid voltage losses over the length of the run. The manufacturer suggests using 3 - wire cable and staggering the lamps across the phases to cut down on voltage losses and cable runs. It was something I hadn't thought of before (maybe it's standard). The article is located here: http://www.ruudlightingdirect.com/landscape/5_step.asp The specific circuit diagram is here: http://www.ruudlightingdirect.com/landscape/dualcircuit.html

Hello Gadgetfreak, I could give you a long explanation on why Boosterlincs will intermittently talk over Insteon communications, but thought I would spare you the detail. Suffice it to say that all versions of the Bossterlinc have this problem to a certain degree. Note also that there are Smarthome versions of the X10 switches that incorporate "Boosterlinc technology". This can be disabled on the switch, but I have no data on how effective this is in eliminating data collision. Please check to see if any of your X10 switches use the Boosterlinc function. Since you were likely programming your Insteon devices with the Boosterlinc installed, it's possible that you have missing/corrupt links in the devices. Your "upper left load" kpl may have a corrupt link. You could perform a "restore" on problem devices, or if you're curious: 1) Run a device link scan: /tools/diagnostics/device links table 2) Compare the device links with what the ISY think should be programmed: hit compare in the "device links table window" after it's populated. 3) restore any device that has missing/corrupt links. If you find that you require a plug in X10 booster to restore your X10 communications, I would highly recommend Jeff Volp's XTBr. Jeff spent a good bit of time working to make sure that this device was Insteon compatible (had to revise the design significantly). It is the only plug in X10 booster that I know of that is compatible with Insteon. I've had both prototypes and production units installed for over 8 months now with nary a problem. Prior to installation my X10 system was faltering due to signal absorption by the Insteon units. I still have many Leviton X10 switches that I'm not ready to give up on. The XTBr restored the functionality of these units without degrading my Insteon communications. IM

Hello Michel, The devices in question are Switchlincs and 6 button KPL's. Pressing the top rocker on the SWL (or on of the KPL) sends the device to the pre-programmed level. A second press sends the device to 100% (the second press can be hours later - not a fast on). I did a bit more experimenting and verified that the ISY correctly recognized both fast on and bright/dim from the modules. IM

My apologies if this is already a known item. I'm running V2.7.15 and can repeatably show loss of synchronization with virtually any dimmer module. The problem (not sure I can call this a bug) occurs on the second "ON" press of a dimmer module. Setup: 2476D programmed for an on level of 50% First button press (on): Lamp goes to p reprogrammed 50% [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.37.AD 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) [standard-Group][00.37.AD-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 [ 0 37 AD 1] DON 0 [ 0 37 AD 1] ST 127 (ISY Correctly infers the on level of 50%) [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.37.AD 0C.A8.B4 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) [standard-Cleanup][00.37.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Second button press (on): Lamp goes to 100% [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.37.AD 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) [standard-Group][00.37.AD-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 [ 0 37 AD 1] DON 0 (note that the ISY Status is not updated - the GUI indicates 50% when the lamp is at 100%) [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.37.AD 0C.A8.B4 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) [standard-Cleanup][00.37.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 As I said above, I just ran across this - I'm not sure if this existed in previous revisions. Nor is it causing me any real problems. I do think it could be a source of confusion for people. The problem with the above is that the dimmer is not sending any actual level information. The ISY sees a "group ON" and infers the level based on the unit programming. In order to track multiple button presses (not fast on) the ISY would need to look at the current on level and Infer that an additional press would send the unit to 100%. Not sure if this is a reasonable request. IM

Congratulations wrj0, I believe yours is the first report of a Rev 1.1 sensor reporting its low battery status. Curious that your sensor date code indicates that it's actually older than my unit(s) (0909 date code). Can you post what type/brand battery gave you the "low battery" confirmation?

6 Button KPL Dimmer Power Consumption (ES model Beta unit with I2 and "beep" function) Configuration 1) Load unused (capped) and turned off (off LED is illuminated) 2) Device not linked (factory reset configuration) Instantaneous measurements: Voltage - 122 V Current - 0.02 A Power - 2 W Accumulated measurements Power - 0.68 kWhr Time - 339 hours Average power consumption - 2.00 W Observed Power factor - .82 Lower overall consumption and better power factor than the previous V.2d unit.

Rand, You've astounded me again. We're about the same age. Somehow I had formed the impression that anyone doing iron work must be much younger. Now I feel like a real wuss having just been informed that I managed to destroy my shoulder while working on an exhaust system (6 months ago). How in the world were you able to survive setting doors, windows, and stairs all those years? Hello Michel, That's an extremely interesting data point. I wasn't involved with the ISY in the early days. I waited for you to add the X10 capability prior to jumping in. At that point it was already fairly mature. If I understand things correctly, Rand was critical of your initial offering. You took that criticism, analyzed it and used it to improved the product. Eventually, you recruited Rand as part of the team. Gotta say, I love your methods as well as the team.

6 Button KPL V.2D Power Consumption Configuration 1) Load unused (capped) and turned off 2) Button 2: Toggle (Linked to my security system) 3) Button 3: Toggle (unlinked) 4) Button 4: Non Toggle ON (always lit) 5) Button 5: Non Toggle ON (always lit) 6) Button 6: Load off button (on) Instantaneous measurements: Voltage - 122 V Current - 0.08 A Power - 3 W Accumulated measurements Power - 0.21 kWhr Time - 88.82 hours Average power consumption - 2.36 W Observed Power factor - .24 Next up - 6 button KPL dimmer (ES model). This unit appears to have power factor correction.

Brian, This doesn't surprise me at all given your background. I actually suspect that you may also disassemble units to look for component and layout changes between revisions (I've done it). While it's interesting to look at how the modules have changed over the years, it does create a bit of a problem for returns. That's most likely why I have a number of "spare units" around. Rand, You amaze me guy. During the day you work the high iron, and then come home to mess with trains, Insteon, and software. That's pretty diverse. As a side note, I used your "Group commander" with the PLC in the early days of Insteon. It really helped me to understand the protocol and the device linking process. Thank you!

Hi Zick, Sorry for the delay - I had missed your question earlier. The LampLinc simply plugs into the UPM (or the Kill-a-watt). For the KPL, I wired a three prong power cord (Power tool replacement cord - 2 wires + ground) to the KPL. The red wire (load control) is capped. I actually use the power cord to "bench test" every unit prior to installing them in their final location. That way I know I have good links in the device and the ISY. If I encounter a problem at the final destination, it's due to a problem on the local circuit. OK, so I'm a bit anal. The first step to recovery is admitting...

Hi Mark, Your numbers on the Dual-band LL are intriguing. Since the device is essentially still active (transmitting/receiving RF) I'd expect some increase in the avg power. However, 0.7 W is quite a bit. Either we have a difference in the measurement capability of our devices (UPM vs Kill-a-watt) or the dual-band units are significantly less efficient. What does the power factor look like on these units? Edit: Just noted that the 2456D3 is not a dual band - even more interesting. My unit is an old 2856D2 Icon dimmer.

Background - the power display on the UPM and Kill-a-watt only have a resolution down to 1 watt. This isn't sufficient to display the actual power being consumed by many automation modules. When you have 50 (or 100) of these devices installed, it makes a big difference if the unit is consuming 1 or .5 watts. By performing a long term kWhr test you can significantly increase the resolution of the measurement. I've accumulated 167.33 hours of power consumption on my Lamplinc using a UPM EM100: Instant current: 0.08 A Line Voltage: 122 Vrms Instant power: 0 W Run time: 167 hours 20 min Accumulated consumption: 0.03 kWHr Avg power = (0.03 kWHr * 1000)/167.33 Hr = 0.179 Watts Uncertainty ( the 0.03 kWHr could range from 0.025 to 0.034) @ 0.025: 0.149 Watts @ 0.034: 0.203 Watts Lamplinc is a V1.0 (rev 1.2) and was run without a connected load. The above is quite a bit less than what I was anticipating for the LL (I expected something in the 0.5 W range). Next up - 6 button KPL.

Hi Ergodic, An inductive power meter (clamp style) may have problems measuring the low current draw of your Inseon devices. Also the 30% power factor number - is that a typo? Most HA devices consume power (off power) with power factor well below that (15 - 20%). If your intent is to measure circuit currents to major devices and lighting loads, these items may not be a concern.

The old electro-mechanical meters were a work of art (spinning dial meter). Fortunately, with modern microprocessors, we don't need a strong physics/e-mag background to do this anymore. Most of the current devices simply sample the Voltage and Current waveforms at a high rate. Average power is then a simple multiplication of the two over a time period (T). Note: I have seen my UPM get "confused" in the presence of voltage spikes (CFL's, etc). This normally occurs at low power consumption/near 90 degree phase shift ( PF near 0). It will sometimes alternate between 0 and 8W on my LL (0w being the correct reading). Adding a filter to the input of the UPM typically corrects this fluctuation. The Dave Houston link that I provided earlier lists measurements for a number of devices. I trust both Dave's methods and the numbers he provided. Since there wasn't much data on current Insteon devices, I've just kicked off a long term (kWh) test on a spare LampLinc I have. I'll report back in about a week. IM

ergoic, Sorry to hear about the Kill-a-watt. It should handle a resistive load easily. Don't mean to be insulting but - you aren't connecting the Kill-a-watt to to output of the dimmer are you? The UPM EM130 does appear to display power factor (My older EM100 does not): EM130 Manual

Mark, Thank you for the confirmation. My understanding was that the Kill-o-watt was pretty good in determining device consumption and PF. At one time I actually considering buying one as a backup. IM

Hello ergodic, I'm a bit surprised that your Kill-a-watt gets confused with dimmers. I had understood it to be equivalent to, or better than, my UPM EM100. Are you measuring incandescent or CFL loads? If CFL, the Kill-a-watt may have some problems with the poor power factor on some CFL's. I can say that my UPM appears to measure both incandescent and dimmable CFL loads under full-on and dimmed conditions. My dimmable CFL is a Sylvania 15W. It measures 19,52 VA and 15 W (PF ~. with the UPM. Hopefully someone with a Kill-A-Watt can comment on their use with dimmers. IM

Hi Illusion, You're absolutely correct about commercial applications. Power companies penalize "big users" with poor power factors (causes problems for their distribution systems). It's interesting that the dual band LL's are showing better power factors. There may be "incentives" for oem's to improve power factors on small devices as well. Most older CFL's exhibited horrible power factors. I was surprised that this was allowed. Obviously a "green" trade that was made at the time. My recent dimmable CFL's are showing PF's of ~ .9 so things are improving.

Hello Ergodic and Illusion, The current measurements that you've observed appear in line with what I've seen in the past. The good news is, you're not being charged for this. This is because the devices are drawing power "out of phase" - it's referred to as apparent power. Your utility company only charges you for the "real" component (in phase portion) of this power consumption. In order to perform this measurement you need a device with power-factor correction. It measures both the current and voltage (or current and phase) to compute the real component of the power. Wiki: Power Factor As an example, I have a lamplinc plugged into my UPM energy meter. Current consumption is 80 ma. Corrected power consumption is 1 W. This device is drawing current nearly 90 degrees out of phase from the voltage waveform. Here's a list of devices that Dave Houston baselined some years ago. Dave improved the accuracy of his meter through long term tests: http://davehouston.net/x10-power.htm

Thanks for elaborating. I did not realize the Insteon signal was more complex and therefore more vulnerable to noise. Makes more sense as to why I have some reliability issues. Hello Intellihome, Insteon signaling is more complex, but I would not say that it is more vulnerable to noise. Quite the contrary, much of the complexity comes from embedded CRC codes (for error checking) and the command/response/retry functions in the protocol. I believe the complexity that UpstateMike was refferring to was the actual programming of devices. This is complex and lengthy. The same protocol/error detection is used, but since the programming can take minutes and you are effectively writing to many units, there is a greater chance that it will be upset. Nothing like this existed in the X10 world. I also use X10 units alonside my Insteon hardware. Since you appear to be having problems with Insteon units in the same location as your old X10 hardware check for common mode problems: 1) Location of your PLM - If different than your X10 controller, it may be near a noise/absorber 2) Phase coupling - The Accespoints are wonderful little devices that are absolutely required for RF coupling (motion sensors and remotelincs). When used for phase coupling, remember that they can also be affected by local noise/absorbers. For this reason I prefer the X10 method of using a passive coupler at the panel. 3) Presence of V.35 Switchlincs - Michel has indicated that these can cause intermittent failures. IM

Hi Mitch, I have a number of the V.2C SWL relay units. I haven't had a problem with these, nor do I remember problems with this firmware revision being reported. They are older units, but that does not mean they shouldn't perform well in your system. I'm beginning to understand your log below, and I believe you're making progress. You appear to be using the event viewer in mode 1. Please switch to mode 2 or 3 for additional information. In your log above you turned on devices 1,2 and 3 manually from the ISY GUI. When you use the GUI to turn on a specific device the ISY uses "Direct communication mode" which requires a response from the device. When you turned on device 4 it did not respond to the ISY and you received the "unable to communicate with xx device". This may have been due to one or more of the following: 1) Turning on devices 1 - 3 created noise on the powerline and prevented device 4 from responding. 2) Turning on device 4 generated noise (additive) preventing a response. The following shows the typical command/response from the ISY to a device when using mode 3 in the event viewer. I really believe this has to do with your loads generating noise. Since you can reproduce the effect from the GUI, try turning off all four devices, then activate only unit 4. Hopefully you can narrow things down to a particular load (CFL). Be careful with your conclusions. All CFLs generate some noise. The noise could be additive. IM

Sorry, Saw the following post after I had replied. This may actually make sense if you are turning on noisy loads with your KPL (CFLs). Please try the scene test again with all of the KPL scenes off. If you get good results, you might try turning on certain loads and rerunning the scene test to get a feel for the noise environment.

Not exactly the night and day results that I had hoped for. I would have liked to have seen a significant difference between the on and off conditions. We might have been able to attribute the difference to the CFL's generating noise. Are these results typical for other scenes or is this a problem area? Are all of these SWL on one circuit, or spread across multiple?

Mitch, Thank you for the replies. I am not proficient with the Climate module (I don't have the module) but understood this to be network based. As such, I would not expect it to cause Insteon communication problems as you described previously. I will, however, defer to the ISY masters in this regard. The log that you posted indicates that the ISY is receiving the communication from you SWL when turned on. The remaining ST entries are, I believe, the ISY predicting the status of the scene based on the communication. In other words, there is only one communication and the ISY is showing the status that "should" be attained in the scene. Please try the following tests using the ISY diagnostic "scene test". You can find the scene test under the menu item Tools\diagnostics\scene test. There's a description of the test here: Scene Test 1)Try the scene test on your Porch scene with all of the devices off. Hopefully everything will pass. 2)Turn your devices on using your SWL "mini scene" and retry the scene test. If we've both lead clean lives, you'll get some failures here. I'm mostly depending on you here since my life can't be construed as clean. 3)Turn the devices off, then back on via your KPL. Retry the scene test again. Please report by your results. Hopefully we can come up with an explanation to fit the data. IM