IndyMike

@someguy, as @paulbates indicated the ISY provides a Option box for enabling the Blink on Tx for most devices. @MrBill had a nice post on the subject here: https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/35258-blink-on-insteon-traffic-setting/#elControls_330388_menu The option has been around since at least 2015. From what I can see, it's available on all of my V.45 and newer KPL's, SWL's, and plug in devices. Earlier devices are hit and miss. As it turns out, Blink on TX is the same as Blink on Traffic since all modules repeat Insteon traffic. In looking at your original post, I noticed that a number of your problem items were named "Malibu" and all seemed to be associated with outdoor devices. I tend to associate Malibu with low voltage lighting (maybe incorrectly). Is it possible these are low voltage applications on outdoor GFCI circuits? Any photocells on fixtures? The presence of GFCI's, LV transformers, and/or photocells can send troubleshooting in different directions (boosting vs filtering vs isolating). Would you mind describing your problem circuits a bit more (indoor/outdoor, load type, GFCI, fixture type)?

@CoolToys, I'm glad to hear that you re-wrote the entire program. I am starting to think along the same lines as @Guy Lavoie, that this is at least partly due to a ISY994/Eisy transfer. I was playing with my test program for awhile today. After numerous edits, I found a situation where the program was calling the incorrect scenes and executing things in the incorrect order. I exported the program to XML and could see that it was incorrect, but the "text" version was correct. Saving the program, copying and saving, etc. did not correct the issue. I had to go line by line, change the "text", update, save and then re-change to correct things. Quite the process - rewriting would have been easier. If your programs didn't transfer properly, it would be very difficult to correct them given the complexity. They look correct visually, but execute very differently. I am still playing with the "Duplicate or ACK for a different device" error from the PLM. I can turn it on/off now based on devices communication failures and wait times. Still not sure whether it's a problem - can't imagine that it's a good thing. One interesting thing that I did put in the program was an integer variable that I increment after each "Wait". It's far easier to track the program progress in the event viewer with the variable incrementing. CoolToys Copy - [ID 006B][Parent 0067] If '19.21.5C.1' is switched Off Then $FirstDining.On = 1 Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / SC BSMT' Fast On Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 2 Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room Load' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 3 Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Rm Sconce' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Game KPL Overhead A' Fast Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 4 Set 'Basement / BSMT Game Sconce' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT KPL Game' Fast Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 5 Set 'Basement / BSMT Kitchen Cans' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 6 Set 'Basement / BSMT Kitchen Ceiling' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Stair' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 7 Set 'Basement / BSMT Stair 2' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Storage' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Video Cans' Off Set 'Basement / Basement Bed' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 8 Set 'Basement / Furnace Room' Off Set 'Basement / Test LampLinc' Off Set 'Basement / Test Matthew Lamp' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 9 Set '13.32.8B-Sensor / 13.32.8B-Relay' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 10 Set 'Basement / Test-Sensor / Test-Relay' Off Set 'Basement / Test 13.07.33.1' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 11 Set 'Basement / Test 13.05.A8.1' Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 12 Set '0F.82.A9.1' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room' On Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 13 Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room Load' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Bed' On Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 14 Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Rm Sconce' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Game KPL Overhead A' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Game Sconce' On Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 15 Set 'Basement / BSMT KPL Game' On Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 16 Set 'Basement / SC BSMT' Fast Off Wait 5 seconds $FirstDining.On = 17 Set 'Basement / SC BSMT Entry' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

When you actuate a device, you are executing a scene. However, the device will (try to) interrogate each member of the scene to determine if it responded correctly. If a group member does not respond, the device will try again up to 3 times. If any device in the scene responds incorrectly, the initiating device (may) retry the command up to 3 times. If the scene still fails, the device (may) flash red. When there is high Insteon traffic, the device may abandon the group interrogation. The ISY does NOT do this. It sends the Group On command (scene) and does not interrogate the individual group members. It assumes the command was followed and reflects this status. LeeG's description (better than mine): https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/11690-understanding-retries-in-isy/#findComment-109217 If you are concerned scenes not responding, you can run the "scene test" under "Tools/diagnostics/Scene Test". This is a special test that runs the scene ON followed by an OFF followed by a group cleanup on each device. It's actually not an easy test to pass.

So, rather than telling @CoolToys why what he was seeing couldn't happen, I tried some "stress testing: Constructed a program with 29 devices and the same wait sequence he used. Used a Set variable = 1 at the beginning and set variable = 0 at the end (to test if the program completed). Triggered the program with a 2477D switchlinc using a control "switched off". Seven (7) of the devices were plug-in's (lamplincs, ApplianceLincs, IOLincs) powered on a strip. These were for inducing communication failures Bottom line - the program ALWAYS finished. My variable was always set to 0 at the end. There were a crazy number of "other" programs being triggered as I went through the sequence. None of this stopped the test program from completing. Turning off the strip of 7 devices caused PLM retries and ISY Retries. Again - the program finished. There was 1 very interesting development during the testing - The following would show up at in response to some commands to the PLM. The 1st line is the command from the ISY to the PLM. The 2nd line is the PLM acknowledging the command. The 3rd line is very strange. The PLM is sending a 2nd ACK back to the ISY. I have never seen this before, nor can I find any reference to it on the forum. Has anyone ever seen this message? Seems like the PLM is getting confused or out of synch with the ISY. Tue 12/24/2024 08:44:50 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 18.93.83 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 12/24/2024 08:44:51 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 54.A5.19 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 12/24/2024 08:44:51 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 54.A5.19 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00): Duplicate or ACK for a different device Test Program - bold items are installed on power strip CoolToys - [ID 0068][Parent 0067] If 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' is switched Off Then $FirstDining.On = 1 Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room Load' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Rm Sconce' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Game KPL Overhead A' Fast Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT Game Sconce' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT KPL Game' Fast Off Wait 4 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT Kitchen Cans' Off Wait 4 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT Kitchen Ceiling' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Stair' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT Stair 2' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Storage' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Video Cans' Off Set 'Basement / Basement Bed' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / Furnace Room' Off Set 'Basement / Test LampLinc' Off Set 'Basement / Test Matthew Lamp' Off Wait 5 seconds Set '13.32.8B-Sensor / 13.32.8B-Relay' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / Test-Sensor / Test-Relay' Off Set 'Basement / Test 13.07.33.1' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / Test 13.05.A8.1' Off Wait 4 seconds Set '0F.82.A9.1' Off Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room' On Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT Back Room Load' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Bed' On Wait 4 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT Fam Rm Sconce' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Game KPL Overhead A' On Set 'Basement / BSMT Game Sconce' On Wait 4 seconds Set 'Basement / BSMT KPL Game' On $FirstDining.On = 0 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

@CoolToys, let me start by saying that I agree with what @oberkc has posted above. Dividing things into two programs avoids a number of pitfalls with negative triggers (program exits) and can be made to ignore "re-triggers". I am focused on your item #3 where you changed your trigger to "control". This should have looked like the following: If 'MB Door Keypad 70 9B C0All On' is switched Off Or 'MB Window Keypad.On' is switched Off Then Set XX on Wait Set yy off Wait If this program did not run to completion there are very few explanations: 1) One of the Keypads was manually "switched on" (program exit), or "switched off" (program re-trigger). 2) You have another program that is being triggered and is "retriggering" or disabling your Bedtime program. This could be a "run if", "run then" or "run else" statement. Or a program disable or stop statement. 3) Your Eisy is re-booting. I'm assuming that you are not manually pressing buttons on your KPL's, so we can eliminate #1. For #2, you can search your programs to see if anything is trying to call or modify your bedtime program. It may be easier to place all your other programs in a conditional folder and disable the folder. That's a favorite tactic of mine when things aren't making sense. For #3 I am not much help. I don't have an Eisy and can't tell you how to detect a reboot. I have seen posts on the subject.

This should not be the case if you are triggering from an Insteon Keypad. Keypads can be configured for Toggle (On/Off), Non-Toggle On, and Non-Toggle Off. Momentary is not an option. I constructed the following programs as an example. The "BSMT fam cans" device is a 2477D Switchlinc dimmer. Both of the programs will evaluate true when triggered positive, and false when triggered negative. Beyond that: 1) Local device control will trigger both programs on/off. 2) The control program WILL NOT trigger if the Switchlinc is turned on/off by a scene, program, or Admin console. 3) The Status program WILL trigger if the Switchlinc is turned on via scene, program, or Admin console. Control On If 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' is switched On And 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' is not switched Off Then Set 'Basement / SC BSMT Back Room' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Status on Test Status - [ID 0065][Parent 0067] If 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' Status > Off And 'Basement / BSMT Fam Cans' Status is not Off Then Set 'Basement / SC BSMT Back Room' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Interesting disconnect on the SD card size. I can see where the Wiki specifies 32Gb in multiple places. The ISY994i User Guide 4.2.8 specifies 16Gb max. I've been using the User guide since I keep a PDF locally. I suspect that the Wiki is more up to date, but it would be good to get clarification. Can someone verify the 32Gb SDCards work?

Understand completely. That's why I asked the question. Insteon can work on a 3 phase system. Unfortunately, PLM's will not be able to communicate X10 on 3 phase. The older X10 CM15a interfaces would communicate @120 degrees for 3 phase applications. On the flip side, I have 3 phase motor controllers that operate off split single phase 240V power. Again, that's why I asked for clarification on the house/fan power.

The XPF is a rather capable in-line filter. It's rather large, normally requires a 3-gang box to install. The XPNR is a shunt filter. As such, it's rather small and does not have a specific current specification. It will absorb both Insteon and X10 signals. It can be effective if placed near the offending device with a good line length back to the electrical panel (higher impedance). You mentioned that your fan was 3-phase. That's rather unusual for a home install. Is your home also 3-phase, or is this a 240V powered fan with a 3-phase inverter? I ask because Insteon PLM's are not configured to provide X10 in a 3 phase installation (120 degree phase separation).

@CoolToys, Have a look at your motion sensor for the guest area. It can disable/interrupt your bedtime program if it fires at the wrong time. I just recently replaced batteries on two MS I sensors that were behaving badly (no low battery set). Aside from that, when programs fire without a trigger or re-enable themselves I start thinking about SDcards and the like. A program should Never spontaneously enable itself (you can enable a program with another program). I have no experience with the Eisy, so I will bow to others who do.

@gempro, not sure if you have been able to resolve your issues. Your event log did show an interesting detail that was not part of the scene test. After the test completed, the ISY attempted to write an update to your 46.2F.CA device (RemoteKP.F). This update failed with a Nack response from the KPL. The Nack indicates that your new PLM is not currently linked to this device. It looks like with update may have been automatically triggered after you performed the scene test. In a system that is having communication issues, that can complicate things. Try turning OFF the automatic writes (screen capture below) and restoring this device. If the restore completes successfully, perform a link table read/compare to double check. Continue in this manner with your other devices. If the restore does not work, come on back and we can develop a plan B. <html><font color="red">----- Keypad LED F Test Results -----</font></html> <html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> KeypadF (44 7D D7 6)</html> <html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> RemoteKP.F (46 2F CA 6)</html> <html><font color="red">----- Keypad LED F Test Results -----</font></html> Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 12 CF 13 00 Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.12 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [Ext MH ] Unexpected Ack imCmd=62 cmd1=LTOFFRR 0x13 Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [46 2F CA 1 ] Link 27 : 0F20 [A22A711973FF1F01] *Failed Writing [A22A711973FF1F01] Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [All ] Writing 8 bytes to devices Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 46.2F.CA 71.19.73 AB 2F FF (FF) Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [Std-Direct Nack] 46.2F.CA-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [46 2F CA 1] [ERR] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 10/23/2024 07:18:32 PM : [ 46 2F CA 1] ERR 1

@CoolToys, the program you posted above has the variable $sOccupied_Guest_Edit is 0 as a qualifier. I'm not sure where this is controlled, but if it is altered it could cause your program to exit prior to completion. The waits in your program will allow this. Some lights could be left in the incorrect state, and the variable $sBedtime = 1 might not be set.

@CoolToys, as others have indicated, a program that uses ONLY the condition "Time is XXXX" will show true until it triggers false. Unfortunately, it will Never trigger false. As a result, you can't use the program status as an IF condition in another program (it will always be true). As a workaround, you could use the "From XX to XX" clause that would evaluate to a false after the time period. The following program will evaluate to false 1 minute after sunset. This becomes difficult if you have embedded "waits" within your program (which you do). You wind up with a race condition between the program and the If statement. It's far better to separate the Trigger (if statement) and program (then clause) into two separate programs so the IF statement won't terminate your running program. Outside Sunset - [ID 0015][Parent 0002] Outside Sunset - [ID 0015][Parent 0002] If From Sunset For 1 minute Then Set 'Outdoor / SC Outside Sunset' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I'm not sure that's the answer to you issues as nothing that you've posted above would results in your variables both being true ("sEarly_Morning" and "sNight") Please do review your code for any programs that use a program "true" status as a condition.

@SimonK, thanks for taking the time to post back the results of your ticket with UD. It sounds like this problem may have been frustrating users for some time. Curious whether it applies to the Polisy and possibly the ISY994. In the meantime, celebrate by spinning up some Queen "another bug bites the dust"

@Guy Lavoie, thanks for the clarification. Looks like I added 2 + 2 and came up with 22. One question regarding your eisy/Zstick configuration - does it support S2 security? The link that I referenced above (@lilyoyo1) indicated that S2 security was only supported for the Zmatter board. Wasn't sure if that had changed.

Ouch! When did UD UNSUPPORT the Zooz 700 stick? That's a rather major new item and a big departure from previous statements. Did I mis-understand? https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/34826-zwave-700-series-tips-and-tricks/

I'm thinking that the IF clause is re-evaluating to false after you have run the "Then section" of the program. Your 20 second waits will allow the program to exit. Try separating into two programs (1 program for IF and 1 for Then).

@larryllix, I was unaware (or forgot) about the psudodevice using the Alexa interface. It appears that similar triggers can be accomplished by publishing variables through the portal. Not my cup of tea. I understand that this is my issue. I started with the ISY26 in the way back because it was a local solution to home automation. I've managed to stick with that for most of my ISY994 and Home assistant implementation. Not willing to go to the Dark Side (pun intended) of internet automation. As stated earlier, I have a very different view of scene status. I wan to know if ANY device in a scene (bsmt, 1st floor, 2nd floor, outside) is on so I can display it on a keypad and turn All Scene Members off. My thing - but that's what home automation is, right?

This is precisely the thinking that led to where we are now. We could never agree on what constituted the status of a scene. In trying to please everyone, UD did nothing - and pleased no one. If they had tried something, it would have been a starting point that could have been built upon... I am quite pleased by the scene status that HA currently gives me. If I upgrade my ISY994, I will try the Virtual plugin. I'm quite sure I could find applications for it.

@Guy Lavoie, nice find and good job realizing the possible applications. This is what happens when a new set of eyes looks at an old problem. Rather than enumerating all the ways the problem can't be solved, the new eyes provide a solution. If I could figure out a way of running this on my ISY994, I'd be all over it. I guess it's one more vote for upgrading to the Eisy...

The links for 33.D7.B7 are showing a mismatch, but they are probably OK. The LSb is being set to 1 for some reason, but probably won't cause any harm. A restore will correct this, but it's likely to return. Device 34.E7.8B is a controller for group 00. It's very likely your PLM. The links for 33.10.4F look valid. Your deck lights are listed as a responder to the 33.10.4F switch. There should be in a scene on the admin console showing 33.10.4F as a controller and your 34.09.80 as a responder.

@Techman, very interesting. Wasn't aware the ISY994 supported Zwave 700 series dongle's. Which manufacturers are compatible?

Thank you Paul. I am familiar with the switch monitoring technique. I've been using it since my first ISY26 back in 2007. It most certainly does work. The technique allows me to monitor each floor of my house (1st, 2nd, basement) and display the status on keypads so I can turn monitor/turn off sections of the house as I am leaving or going to bed. It is also, unfortunately, very easy to break. Devices moving in/out of scenes, devices being replaced by dissimilar devices, naming issues all contribute to broken status programs over the years. With IF statements of 25 to 75 devices, it's easy to miss things. This maintenance issue could be avoided if we had access to the scene state (on/off). Somehow the ISY is communicating this information to Home Assistant (very nicely). As @Guy Lavoie stated, this is a feature request - not a problem to be solved through a work around.

This discussion has been going on since scenes were implemented by Smartlabs. The bottom line is Insteon does not support either Scene "Status" or "control states" and creating an architecture for this has been LOW PRIORITY for UDI. One workaround that I have found is to use the Home Assistant integration for the ISY. Home Assistant treats scenes as "switches" or "relay devices". They are either ON or OFF. Curiously, I noted that Home Assistant shows scenes as active (ON) if ANY scene member has a Level > Off. Conversely, all scene members must be Off for a scene to be shown as Off. I use this functionality for triggering programs on Home Assistant. I seriously doubt that Home Assistant is divining the scene status on it's own. Unfortunately, we don't have access to the information on the ISY platform. Seems a little ridiculous, but there are far worse things in life.

That's it. The top "On" button and bottom "Off" button on the 5 button KPL are essentially Non-toggle buttons. The ON can only send On commands (or bright) and the Off can only send Off commands (or dim). As we discussed above for the Motion sensor, multiple consecutive ON commands will NOT show up in the Log (same for multiple Off). The device communicates and will show up in the event viewer (and trigger programs), but repeated commands will not be reflected in the logfile. I have never used the "buttons grouping" feature. As recommended by UDI, I use scenes to accomplish similar things. Look for programs that may be triggered by the devices turning ON. You may want to disconnect the loads to see if this eliminates the issue. Good answer. I've used the vacation mode feature on a few controllers. Being from the "dogpatch" section of the country, I don't have a real application for the feature. I can understand it's value for others. Not sure how repeatable this problem is... If you manually run your program can you force the problem to occur? If so, you can copy the program and try removing devices to see if the problem goes away. I think there is a way to accomplish what you want. It involves switching the KPL to 8-button mode and then joining the A+B and G+H buttons in a scene. From the outside the KPL looks like your 5-button. A+B buttons are Non-toggle ON (as they are on a normal 5 button) and the G+H buttons are Non-toggle Off. It allows you to control the lighting on all of the buttons - when all buttons are off, the KPL can be completely dark. If you're interested, we could start another thread on the configuration (may already be something on the forum). Probably better to figure out your current issues 1st.