Michel Kohanim

Heatvent and GPG, I am not going to feign mastery of this topic and I urge others to chip in. Each INSTEON device has a database also called a "Link Database"; this is a flat structure of 1024 bytes (1K) which holds all the linkages between this device and other devices. In this database, each link record is 8 bytes long. When you create scenes, using ISY, manual mode, or through HouseLinc, this is the location where all the links are written/read from in a sequential manner. In order to achieve higher performance rates (not having to go through all the links), each link record: 1. Could have an inactive flag (it's neither a slave nor a master) 2. There's a high watermark beyond which no links are valid When you use ISY as the linking tool, ISY starts at the top and overwrites existing links at those addresses but any existing links beyond where ISY last wrote remain intact. If you wish to reset the device (to get rid of all the old links without having to do a reset), all you have to do is to followup with Restore Device (when you click on a device in the tree and right mouse click to get the menu) in which case your device will be in synch with ISY 100% and the highwater mark is moved to where it should be. All INSTEON devices also have some variables that dictate the way they should operate/behave such as on level and ramp rate presets. For KPLs, there are also button grouping, back light level, and toggle mode variables. You can set these variables programmatically but, unfortunately, for these variables to take effect, they have to be written to the volatile memory (load RAM from eeprom). At the moment, the only device that supports reinitializing the RAM is KeypadLinc. As such, when you change the on level/ramp rate for any other device (such as LampLinc or SwitchLinc) you wuold have to do an airgap or unplug the unit and plug it back in for the changes to take effect. ISY, currently, has the capability of updating the following memory locations: 1. On Level -- all devices; requires airgap for any device except KPL 2. Ramp Rate -- all devices; requires airgap for any device except KPL 3. Button Groups -- KPL only; does not require airgap We are thinking of adding support for: 4. Backlight level -- KPL only; does not require airgap 5. Toggle vs. non-Toggle -- KPL only; does not require airgap So, if you use your HouseLinc (or other programs) to program the backlight and toggle/non-Toggle, not only ISY would not "care" but also it would not even touch those memory locations. So, you can use your HouseLinc (till we add support) to program the Toggle/Non-Toggle and backlight level, shutdown HouseLinc, and continue using the whole system as nothing ever happened. Lastly, I think there's a misconception that ISY is directing traffice between devices. I have to emphasize that this is not the case. All the programming/linking is done between devices. As such, you can unplug ISY and the whole system should still operate the way you had it designed within ISY. For the sake of completeness, ISY creates a maximum of two links: 1. A group controller link for any device within any scene. This enables you to control the whole scene from ISY (or your computer by extension); i.e. a schedule to turn on the whole house to 10% 2. A master link only in a controller (such as KPL) and a slave link in the PLM. This allows ISY to "listen" in on the activities of the controller (i.e. button pushed) and thus let you do triggers based on those "events". Again, ISY can be totally taken out and the whole system should work as designed. ISY is only there if you need "trigger" and "scheduler" functionality. I hope I've been able to answer some of your questions, With regards, Michel

Hi sfhutchi, At the moment, we do not support "programming" KPL beyond button grouping. There are two more functions on KPL which we are "thinking" about implementing: Toggle/Non-Toggle Backlight level Unfortunately, though, due to major demand for more elaborate triggers we have been putting all our effort on triggers for our next release. With kind regards, Michel I would vote for backlight level. Very good idea. Any chance this is something that can be programmed on a switchlinc. If you look around techmall.com there are many people who have complained the LED's are too bright. I don't think so! KPL, for some reason or another, has more features than SwitchLinc the most important of which is its capability to take in a ramp rate/on level programmatically (with others, you have to do an airgap). And, I think it's this feature alone that allows it to be more flexible: all and all, we are just setting bits in some memory location which, then, the KPL has to read and reinitialized based on them. With regards,

sfhutchi, We are working on a solution. Yes, you can program using HouseLinc; ISY does not touch those memory locations. With regards,

Hi sfhutchi, At the moment, we do not support "programming" KPL beyond button grouping. There are two more functions on KPL which we are "thinking" about implementing: Toggle/Non-Toggle Backlight level Unfortunately, though, due to major demand for more elaborate triggers we have been putting all our effort on triggers for our next release. With kind regards, Michel

GPG, Buttons inside a group are mutually exclusive. i.e. if you put button 1 in group 1 and button 2 in group 2 then nothing happens. If you want buttons 1 and 2 to be mutually exclusive, you should put buttons 1 and 2 in the same group. I hope this helps, With regards,

Hello all, Release 2.4 is all about enhanced triggers. Enhancements More triggers. Status: being implemented Triggering schedules/scheduling triggers. Status: being implemented GUI Facelift for triggers/schedules. Status: being implemented With regards

Scott, my pleasure. Your unit will be shipped today. With regards,

Hi Scott, ISY supports up to 64 schedules in total; each schedule may be applied to an individual device, a scene, or the whole network of devices (globally). In release 2.3 (we are at 2.1 now, so in about 3 weeks to a month), triggers and schedules shall be linked so that you could have scheduled triggers and triggered schedules. I hope I've been able to answer your questions. With regards,

Precisely! i.e. Movie Scene, Party Scene, Vacation Scene, etc.

I think I found a simplier way, I have my office lights in an Office scene. This consists of KPL button E, a switchlinc and an ICON all as controllers (3-way circuit). I created a separate scene called All On/Off and put anything that is not controlled by the KPL in there. Now I have two triggers. If KPL G is on (my all on/off button), turn on All On/Off and Office. The other trigger is to turn things off. Seems to work fine and saves a scene since KPL button E is already in my office scene. On you second bullet point, can a KPL button be a responder? When I drag and drop a KPL button it just goes right into the scene in italics, no choice for controller/responder. heatvent, You are getting to know more about our product that we do! It's not fair. The answer to your last question is: it will be (KPL button acting as a responder) in our next release. Thanks so very much, With regards,

Or, we might even have a better solution. Thanks for your suggestions and we appreciate your patience. Please continue sending us your suggestions. With regards,

This usually happens when a device does not respond back to the PLM within 4 seconds. If this happens often, then you might want to consider some signal boosters such as SignaLinc, etc. Larry, this is an excellent question which hopefully will answer some other questions as well: The reason is that if you do an on level from the GUI, ISY takes the stored on level and turns the device on to that level using an INSTEON command. Unfortunately, there's no such command for "turn on the device to this level and at this ramp rate" till the next release of INSTEON; or that's what we've been told. So, ISY tries to mitigate the issue of having to do airplug/etc. for onlevel if you try to control a device using the GUI but it cannot do the same for ramprate. Futhermore, this does not change the behavior of the device if its turned on manually (which requires airgap/etc.). This is specifically the case for KPLs and SLs. Now, thanks to heatvent, we are going to fix the issue for KPL ramprates. But for SLs, you still have to do an airgap/etc. For LLs, and since in most cases they are part of a scene, it normally doesn't matter since you can adjust the scene onlevel/ramprate for each device in the scene without having to airgap/reset them. I hope I haven't added to your puzzlement! With regards,

Yes! Just set the on level and ramp rates in ISY GUI and then walk to each of the devices you configured and then do any of: unplug/replug them back in, click on the set button twice (on some units only), or do an airgap for SwitchLinc. For KPLs you should do an airgap till our next release (see below). please see the answer to your previous questions. please do not reboot ISY/restore it/restore PLM. All it takes is to "reboot" the INSTEON device (see above). If this does not work for you, please let me know what type of INSTEON device you are using and we'll follow up with SmartHome. heatvent, you GOT us here. You are absolutely right and this feature will be enabled in our next release but only for KPLs. In short, there's an INSTEON command which updates the EPROM from RAM but it only works for KPL (for some unknown reason). Thank YOU.

heatvent, Button Grouping allows you to make mutually exclusive behavior for your KPL buttons. So, for instance, if you want When Button A is On, then Button B and C to be off (and vice versa), then you drag and drop buttons A, B, and C into a group. With regards,

Heatvent, 1) You are right! There's no point in trying to adjust the local ramp rate and on levels for controllers since INSTEON devices require you to reset the device for any local settings to take effect. 2) This said, however, if your devices are within a scene then the ramp-rates/on levels for all but the local controller are set remotely and you do not have to reset anything. With regards, 1) What do you mean by INSTEON devices require you to reset the device for any local setings to take place? I have set ramp rates before by setting the switchlinc to a dim level and then pusing the set button twice. It takes effect immediately. You are pushing the set button twice: this, in effect, is like unplugging the device and plugging it back in. I used the word "reset" which is wrong. You basically have to do what you just said: after you make changes to the local on level and ramp rate for a device then you either do an air-gap or push the set button twice, or unplug the unit and plug it back in depending on the "type" of the device. By remote onlevel/ramp-rate I meant onlevel/ramp-rate for the devices within a scene. Each device can belong to multiple scenes with different on level and ramp rates for each scene. Setting "remote" ramp rate/on level does not require you to airgap/double click set button/unplug and plug back in. Only "local" on level and ramp rate are the issue here. And, ISY is not in between ANYTHING except when you use triggers or schedules. ISY writes all the links,groups, attributes to each device. Again, the only time that ISY is in between and controlling traffic is IF you use triggers or schedules. To test, just unplug ISY and you'll notice that all your programmed scenes/links will still work I hope I am able to answer your questions ... please let me know if I am causing more confusion than clarifications. With regards,

Bravo!! You've surely done a better job of explaining how scenes triggers should be applied than any of us here at UDI. Thanks so very much. You are right; we haven't been able to sense LampLinc load situations due to a variety of reasons and mostly due to LLs not being capable of acting as controllers. We are trying to come up with a workaround. You are 100% correct. Your suggestion is already added as it does makes much more sense to have triggers that follow the state of the controlling devices. Already working on it ... lookout for version 2.3. Thanks so very much for your suggestions, Regards,

heatvent and slooplinc, Here's the crux of the problem: KPL does not let you have one button control another. Now, we are working on a solution to allow a KPL button (not the load) to also act as a responder just for the sake of controlling the backlight for KPL buttons (release 2.3). This will solve most of your issues because you can do the following: -Put your office lights in a scene, say, office with let's say KPL Button B as the controller for that scene. So, now everytime you click on B, all your office lights will turn on/off based on what you did to the button -Put all your other lights in a scene, say, everything and, say, you make KPL 1 the controller -Make another scene called, say, my office backlight and drop in KPL B in it as a responder -Finally, make two triggers conditions based on KPL 1 (everything controller) and have them control the my office backlight scene Sorry for all these workarounds but we have no choice till such time that KPLs allow each button control the other With regards,

Heatvent, You are right! There's no point in trying to adjust the local ramp rate and on levels for controllers since INSTEON devices require you to reset the device for any local settings to take effect. This said, however, if your devices are within a scene then the ramp-rates/on levels for all but the local controller are set remotely and you do not have to reset anything. With regards,

GPG: Thank you. Actually, I don't have any tips and, thus, I would appreciate any tips you might have to give us after playing with them over the weekend. Limitations (all of which will be addressed in release 2.2 which is our next release): 1. 20 triggers with 6 conditions and 6 responses per trigger 2. Timed triggers and triggering schedules are not supported With regards, Michel

May I ask what operating system you use and what is your screen resolution so that we can try and reproduce it here? I truly appreciate it. With regards,

You cannot have the different KPL buttons of the same KPL in the same scene. Sorry; you might want to submit an enhancement request to SmartLabs!

The answer to your last question is: Not yet. We are working on it inconjunction with our triggers. With respect to your other questions, all you have to do is to create schedules for your already created scenes. i.e. you already have buttons, controlling a scene, which do the same thing that you want your scheduler to do. As such, simply create recurring schedules for that specific scene.

Sloop, please forget about the press and hold; you don't need press and hold again. All you have to do is: a. Create a scene and call it Whole House (e.g.) b. Drop in each and every one of the KPL buttons that you want to have control the Whole House Scene c. Click on the Whole House scene, assign on level and ramp rates for each and every one of the KPLs to your desired settings d. If you want all KPLs to have the same scene attributes (on level/ramp rate) then simply click on each and every KPL button, in Whole House scene, and then click on Copy Attributes from Whole House Your are done: each button will do the same exact thing as the others and when you click on one the others will be illuminated

You cannot have different buttons of the same KeypadLinc in a scene simply because you'll corrupt the KPL's database. You can try the press-and-hold method but a) your KPL will start acting up. The best solution for this scenario is a trigger!

Sloop, here we go with Scenes 101: 1. Scenes are are simply a group of devices. Scene is equal to a group in INSTEON vernacular 2. Each device in a scene can have its own on level and ramp rate regardless of its local on level and ramp rate. Example: If you have a scene called sloop, and you drop in slooplinc1 and slooplinc2 in there, then you could assign: slooplinc1- on level 50%, ramp rate 2 mins slooplinc2- on level 70%, ramp rate 5 mins So, now, when you go to your computer and click on the "sloop" scene node (on the tree to your left), and when you press the "on" button, then slooplinc1 is going to "start" turning on to 50% which should take 2 mins slooplinc2 is going to "start" turning on to 70% which should take 5 mins If you click on "fast on" or "fast off", neither the ramp-rate nor the on levels apply. 3. Now, let's go one step further. Let's assume that now you are going to drop in one of the KeypadLinc buttons into the sloop scene. If this is a the "load" KeypadLinc button, then you will be asked whether or not you want to make this button a "controller" or a "responder". If a "controller", then you can assign on levels and ramp rates for "slooplinc1" and "slooplinc2" in the same way that you assigned it for the "sloop" scene. The only difference is that now, instead of ISY, you can control slooplinc1/2 from the keypadlinc button you drop in Now, with this out of the way, the answer to question 1: If you already have all your devices linked in ISY, then you would never ever need to use the paddle press/set button on any of the linked Insteon devices unless you wish to reset them. For your scenario, all you need to do is create a scene, and drop your SwitchLinc relays in there and both as controllers . This shall mimic your three way set up since each relay controls the other. Whoooah .... On to the next question (how am I doing?) Question 2 Ditto (above). You would never ever have to ever never click on that set button unless you want to reset the device