barrygordon

Thanks for the info madbomber. I agree with all of the points you are making. I will probably keep the main Tstats (wired) and use the 1-wire stuff for all the other rooms. I wanted to get the 1-wire stuff into the ISY but I do not see a simple way of doing that. I guess I need to understand the network module more. The last I read it (the network module) only controlled things but did not take things into the ISY; but those were older posts. My HA design uses UDP for many things related to notifications. For example at the current time my 1-wire system, a program on an always on PC sends UDP messages whenever any temperature changes providing the room name and the current temp reading. The wall mounted iPads pick this up to act as the UI. The same is true for the pool control system using an Autelis module. The ISY does subscription TCP broadcasts to all the iPads. One thought I had was to set up the wiring such that I could revert to standard Tstat control with the flip of a switch turning a set of NC relays off to allow the Tstats to control the HVAC as it does now, but with the relays flipped in the other direction the program controls the HVAC. I am going to have to replace the HVAC systems, there are two, in the near future as the are about 15 years old and will be starting to become a maintenance issue.

Thanks for the reply. I suspected that you wre controlling the HVAC by manipulating the set point on the TH. I really did not want to do that since after the set point is reached or some future time I would think i would want to put the set point back. I am probably going to do all of the HVAC control, and eventually damper/zone control using relays under the control of the program that reads the 1-wire temperature sensors. After all, that is what the thermostat eventually does, control relays to request state changes on the HVAC system.

You are probably correct, using multiple wired thermostats. I will be achieving the same thing but I am using 1-wire sensors to sense the temperature in rooms without thermostats. Right now I have an always running (24/7) PC program that reads all the 1-wire temperature sensors and sends out UDP broadcast messages whenever a temperature changes My next step (if possible) is to have an ISY network program, I have the network module installed, to listen for the UDP messages and take appropriate actions. How did you command the wired thermostat to turn on /off the HVAC and set its modes? I don't see any way of doing that with the ISY. I guess you could move the set point up/down. Help/advice would be appreciated.

Could you please state the version of the ISY firmware you are using.

Is anyone using a setup where both wired and wireless Insteon thermostats are being linked and used. I would like to discuss performance issues with any one with such a configuration. I see some strange behavior: The wireless unit drops out of being Master after some period of time with no overt action to change it from being Master. Sometimes both units indicate that they are the "Master" I am running ISY 4.1.2. The wired units are in the ISY configuration, the wireless ones are not

LeeG I think I understand it a bit better. I will do a full level 3 trace and send it to you tomorrow.I will also look at the wiki. Thanks for your assistance I just looked at the wiki you mentioned and I knew all of those variables in the main section from my work writing an ISY driver/interface for the iPad using the CommandFusion iViewersystem.

I guess 4.2.1 has a few bugs, that is why it is beta.

Well I have not yet resolved the wired/wireless issue and intend to spend time next week with Smarthome. I also have another thread I started relating to an issue with the ISY reporting an incorrect state for thermostat system state using firmware 4.2.1. I reverted back to firmware 4.1.2 and it now reports the correct state. I would really like to understand the event logs at level three as they seem to contain a lot of info. LeeG has given me some info. Is there any reference manual or document that completely describes the make up of the event logs at their various levels. There is definitely wireless communications going on between a wire and linked wireless thermostat. Each knows who is master, and each shows the current temperature of the other unit. I only have a 1:1 setup (one wired and 1 wireless) so I am not sure what shows with a 1:2 setup. The biggest problem I have I do not believe is ISY related. If I make the wireless unit the Master, it will revert back to not being master at some time in the future. This should never happen. I have also seen where both units indicate they are currently the master. That makes no sense. These issues do not occur if the wireless unit is only powered by a battery. I have one wireless unit powered on battery only and when it is made master it stays master. The other wireless unit which is also powered by +5 volts (regulated source at 5.1 volts) is the one that self reverts from being master. I have exchanged the units and they both act the exact same way. Neither wireless unit is in the ISY configuration That's it for now

I have just started to play around with the DS18B20's I am designing a total HVAC system because of my disgust with the Insteon Thermostats. Look at the OW server from Embedded Data Systems. That is what I am using. It provides a very simple http interface that will provide all sensor data in XML format. It has three ports for one wire daisy chains, with a total limit of 23 sensors (I assume memory issues). The ISY 99 with a network interface will be able to do that. Probably too expensive if all you want is a single sensor. My home will end up with about 10-202 sensors. I am interrogating the OW server from the iPads that are the UI to my HA system. The code was trivial to write using the CommandFusion iViewer and guiDesigner.

Reverting back to firmware 4.1.2 resolved the issue. The ISY now properly reports the system state as cooling. What I really would like to see (perhaps when they fix this issue in 4.2.x) is their being able to send the Master state, i.e. which of a set of wired plus wireless thermostats is the current master The thermostats do pass all the information between them as each shows which is Master and the temperature of the other unit. That is the wired thermostat will show the temperature of the wireless unit and Vice versa. I guess the issue may be the PLM which may not be putting that info on the Ethernet port so the ISY can get it. Anybody know for sure? As I said the Smarthome people have indicated that their HUB knows which is master so at least that should be able to be picked up by the ISY. It would really be nice if all the data were available in the ISY and broadcast as it changed.

Thanks guys; misery loves company!. Hopefully UDI will get this fixed/resolved quickly or recommend I go back to firmware 4.1.2 Tunaman do you have either the PRO or network modules installed? It should be easy enough for me to revert. I am also seeing mismatches on temperature, off by a degree. I am going to revert to 4.1.2. I assume the new modules (Network and PRO) will be unaffected. Lee; are you asking for a full level 3 event log?

I just installed firmware 4.2.1, I still have the UI of 4.1.2 installed. I also purchased and installed the Network module and the PRO module and installed them. The Insteon Thermostat entry in the admin console now shows "Heat On" for the Heat/Cool state when the thermostat is neither cooling nor heating, i.e. the thermostat is showing the system state as "Off", and the subscription system is sending a value of 1 for CLIHCS. When the thermostat shows cooling (i.e the LED is green) the ISY also shows the system state as "Cooling" and the subscription system sends a value of 2. I have four (4) thermostats installed, two wired and two wireless. They form up as two sets, each set containing a wired and a wireless thermostat. The wired thermostats are both in the ISY configuration. Neither of the wireless units are in the ISY configuration. As I stated in a previous post, the issue is very confusing with regard to the wireless vs. wired thermostats. The Smarthome staff claims that their Insteon Hub show which thermostat (wired or wireless) is the master. This would be a good thing for the ISY to also show and report upon. Here is a copy of the event log for a short period of time. The thermostat mode is set to cool as opposed to off, heat, or auto. Is there someplace I can learn what some of the fields in the event log mean? e.g. D2D Event. I have removed a bunch of humidity events which appear fairly often in large bursts, but I left one in at the end so you can see what it typically says.. Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 2] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [ 20 44 74 2] DON 0 Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 2] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [ 20 44 74 2] ST 255 Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 1] [CLIHCS] [2] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [ 20 44 74 1] CLIHCS 2 Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 2] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 08:42:48 AM : [ 20 44 74 2] DON 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:16 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:16 AM : [ 20 44 74 2] DOF 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:16 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 2] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:16 AM : [ 20 44 74 2] ST 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:16 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 1] [CLIHCS] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:16 AM : [ 20 44 74 1] CLIHCS 1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:17 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:05:17 AM : [ 20 44 74 2] DOF 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:07:51 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [20 44 74 1] [sT] [152] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:07:51 AM : [ 20 44 74 1] ST 152 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] DOF 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] ST 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 1] [CLIHCS] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [ 24 5 B5 1] CLIHCS 1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:08:15 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] DOF 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] DON 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] ST 255 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 1] [CLIHCS] [2] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [ 24 5 B5 1] CLIHCS 2 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:34:04 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] DON 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] DOF 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] ST 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 1] [CLIHCS] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [ 24 5 B5 1] CLIHCS 1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:41:58 AM : [ 24 5 B5 2] DOF 0 Sat 04/26/2014 09:45:10 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [24 5 B5 1] [CLIHUM] [47] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 04/26/2014 09:45:10 AM : [ 24 5 B5 1] CLIHUM 47

I will consider that, but I do not think that is the problem. I have not seen any communictions errors on any other device as far back as I can remember, except for some old single band outletLinc devices. I got rid of all of them and went to a micromodule and have never had additional issues.

I just added the fan motor and all is well! The keypad now works just the way it is supposed to. The final step will be to change the four programs from directly controlling the fan motor to run the appropriate scene instead so the keypad LEDs will match the fan state when the state is changed by the remote. I also need to get some new keypad keys that have the fan nomenclature on them! Once again thanks to all who helped. PS I still think it is a marginal KeypadLinc due to all the connection messages. I believe the final success secret was setting up a scene and getting no communications error dialogs.

First of all I want to express my thanks to all who have provided advice and assistance. ISY firmware and UI are the same: Insteon_UD994.v.4.1.2(2014-01-13-23:20:00) I did the on level slider moves as LeeG directed. No change in the operation. The A button still turns on LED's A, B, C. Getting "Cannot Communicate with Device" dialog, always associated with button A. There is nothing wrong connection wise. The keypad is in a dual gang J-box next to a dual band Switchlinc Dimmer. I kept doing the above and finally after several tries I got a set with no communications error dialogs. The keypad works properly now, it least the lights are correct. When I look in the Admin Console for this keypad entry, the current state does not reflect the state of the corresponding LED on the keypad; shouldn't it. The next step will be to add the Fan motor as a responder to each of the four scenes to see if each button does what it is supposed to do. I will keep this interesting tale going

Xanthos et al, I strongly suspect that the keypadLinc is defective. First of all it sometimes reports it cannot access the keypadlinc when I am setting up the scenes. If I run it strictly from the admin console all works as expected. It shows the correct states for the buttons at all times and the physical LEDs act accordingly. When I try it from the device, Buttons B, C, D all behave properly. Button A will turn on B and C in addition to A. Also when I press abutton at the device and look at the keypad device in the admin console it does not show the correct state. I am going to order a new keypad linc from Smarthome and see if that helps.

I have programmed the 4 scenes for High, Medium, Low and Off, as you described (I think). I say I think because they all do not seem to work. I have not added the fan motor yet until I get the keypad lights to work correctly!. Here is what happens by key press at the keypad A - A, B, C all come on B - A, B come on C - Works as it should, only C comes on D - Works as it should, only D comes on I am not sure what you mean by: Be sure to define things in the main scene, then click the additional Controller for that scene (Button A, B C, or D) and click "Copy Scene Attributes" to that the Controller programming matches the ISY programming). What do you mean by the Main scene? I tried dropping power to the key pad, but that had no effect. If there was some way of sending an attachment I would send my Topology report for someone to look at. Any advice appreciated. This has me stumped.

I ended up with 4 programs modeled after what oberkc suggested. Thank you oberkc. In the master bedroom there is an 8 button wall keypad and the 4 scene RemoteLinc. I want the 4 top buttons on the keypad to control the Fanlinc in addition to the RemoteLinc button D controlling it. I am having a bit of trouble figuring out the controller/responder configuration. I want (on the KeypadLinc) button A to be Hi speed, button B to be medium speed, Button C to be low speed, and button D to be Off. I only want one of these 4 buttons to be on at a time. Pressing the appropriate button should set the fan speed motor. I want the RemoteLinc, when it sets a fan speed through the program, to also cause the appropriate button to illuminate on the keypadLinc. Any advice/pointers appreciated.

Thanks for the reply. What exactly is control remotelinc.D? Can't I make the remote linc button press stat the program? Perhaps by setting a state variable?

I have a remoteLinc keypad set up as 4 scenes. The first three buttons (A for ceiling lights, B for lamp 1, C for lamp 2) control Lighting with the left side turning the light off and the right side turning the light on. I want to use the bottom button (D) to control a ceiling fan controlled by a FanLinc. I want the left side to decrease the speed with each touch, and the right side to increase the speed with each touch. Is there a simple way of doing this or should I use a program? If I use programs how do I get the left button press to call the decrease program and the right button press to call the increase program? Can I use a state variable to do this and if so how? If I use two programs, one for increase and one for decrease, I think I know how to do it with a second program. The first program "increase" program would test if the fan is off and if off set it to medium speed. if not off it would call the second "increase program" which would test to see if the fan speed was low and if so set it to medium or else set it to high. Is there a way to make an if-then-elseif-then else type construct so I would only need one program for each mode (increase vs decrease)? Is there a better way of doing this? Any help/assistance appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I have two complete set ups, each having a wired and a wireless thermostat. One set is working fine, and is in the ISY config. The other set, which periodically switches back to the wired one as master with no manual action, I took out of the ISY config. It is still failing. I believe this removes the ISY as the problem source. I will request a replacement thermostat from smarthome. I would appreciate your looking into the ability to set which unit of a wired/wireless thermostat setup is master from the ISY. this would enable me to control which room (thermostat) is controlling the HVAC system based upon time, occupancy, or other conditions via a program. I will keep you informed.

According to the technical staff at smarthome they stated that their hub can designate which thermostat, wired or either wireless, is the "Master" so it seems the API allows for it. The other problem I am having is that I make the wireless unit the master and it runs fine for a while and some time later the system reverts back to the wired unit being the master with no action on my part. The tech said that he is sure that if I take the Thermostats out of the ISY configuration this "reverting to master" will no longer occur. I will try that but then I loose the ability to show the HVAC status on my iPads which I am doing via the ISY. If this is the case (I will let you know after I try it) then somehow the ISY is directing the change in "Master" state; something I would like it to be able to do on command. Help and advice appreciated.

I am starting to use Insteon 2441ZTH Wireless Thermostats with Insteon Wired 2441TH thermostats and have noted the following in the ISY99 configuration tables. I am running ISY firmware 4.1.2. 1) The state of the system (cooling, heating, off) does not show up in the entry for the wireless tstat, only in the entry for the wired tstat. 2) The designation of which is currently master, a wireless tstat (there may be up to 2) or the wired tstat. 3) There is no way to control from the ISY which is master, a specific wireless tstat or the wired tstat. Item (1) above is minor and not an issue. Item(2) and item (3) would greatly improve the usefulness of the wired/wireless tstats. For example I might want the wireless tstat in a bedroom to control temperature for the zone at night, but during the day the wired tstat in the main area to be the temperature control point for the zone. I know there is communications between the wired and wireless tstats as they coordinate the Master state based upon the "Master" button being pressed, and the temperature settings are also passed between them. This would be a very powerful capability to add.

I did add the delay to both systems. I suspect on the change in setpoints from 80 to 77 the ambient temperature was above 77 causing the Tstat to start sending additional status info such as the fact that cooling has started. I suspect this additional traffic caused the problem. On the change from 77 to 80 there would have been no additional traffic as the current HVAC would not have changed

This morning both thermostats were at the correct setpoints. Thanks for the advice. I am using a 10 second delay to allow everything to settle down.