jmed999

I have a few weather related questions with the climate control. BTW, I'm using a PWS although I don't think it matters with regard to the following questions. -When does, "Forecast for next 24 hours" start? Now, Midnight, etc? -What does 24h coverage mean? Mine currently says "Isolated". -Mine says "24h rain = 0.15 inches". Does that mean HAM Weather is predicting 0.15" of rain in the next 24h? -I don't see "%" chance of rain in the next 24h...am I missing something? I'd love to program my irrigation to not run if % rain is above X today as I water between 2AM and 6AM. -Rain today says 6 inches but WU says it has rained 0.38 inches. The 0.38 is correct. Also the pressure say 0 PSI...yikes. Any idea what the problem is? Thanks for any help!

A couple of things... -I have now incorporated from 5AM to 6AM into the programs. If I go on vacation it will continue to run during that time but not if the alarm is armed. -I have a pretty sophisticated Grundfos Alpha pump and I'd rather not turn it off and on every two minutes. Also, keep in mind, if the pump runs 2 minutes the electric heater is flushed with cooler water and will run for 20 min since it has a 20 min reheat time. The pump is 16 watts and the electric tank is ~1400 watts so the electric heater is my main concern money wise. Why are you using the electric heater? If you are going to shut down the recirc pump for 20 minutes at a time, you can just circulate through the on demand tank. Probably at most you might see a half dozen extra cycles on your on-demand tank per day based on a wait time of 20 minutes and only triggering on those lights being on. Also, the 20 minute off time should give plenty of time for the water to cool sufficiently for it to kick on the on demand heater. If you set your on-demand at around 130, then after 20 minutes of sitting in the lines, I would think the water would drop to around 100 or so. Really the only piece of the puzzle missing is that you could put a temp probe on the water line and only let the program run if the temp is lower than 105 or so. A webcontrol board plus a one-wire temp probe would easily do that for about $40. I'm using the electric heater for several reasons. It keeps the recirc line warm at all times while the pump is running without taxing the tankless water heater. This method also produces no cold water sandwich. Also, it keeps the water temp very steady, ie. when in the shower I get the 1st 4 gallons at about 115F then when the hot water from the tankless reaches the shower head (after about 2 minutes of showering) it's also at about 115F so no varying temp which means no hot water surprises for my wife and baby. I will be adding more to/from time to the program in a couple weeks when my family's schedule gets into more of a routine (when my wife goes back to work from having the baby). The water heater has a clear advantage when scheduled times are implemented. With the programs, I have instant (within 5 seconds) hot water when needed at all sinks, showers, etc. and I have the electric cost down to about $10-$15 per month. It used to take about 90 seconds to get hot water. Keep in mind, the water temp from the tankless heater is just slightly higher than the electric tank so once hot water is turned on, the water from the tankless enters the electric heater turning the heating elements on the electric heater off. I love this setup. How do you know how long it takes my recirc line to cool without knowing where I live, the line material, the insulation type, length, etc.? As I've said, I have an auqastat that I could put in. Therefore, I have no need for the webcontrol. The auquastat would turn the pump on at 105F but I don't think it would help. If you knew my setup I think you would agree. The issue with turning the pump off at a temp is varying water temp/hot water surprises and the electric heater would continue to run even if the stat turns the pump off. The water heater turns on and off at it's own setpoints, no need to add additional pump setpoints when the pump is only 16 watts. The auqastat would only complicate the system making tweaks to the program based on experience more difficult. I know my system very well and at this point I'm happy with my programming thanks to the help from you guys. I'm sure it could be tweaked but that will come with experience.

This is the programs I ended up with... Pump 1 If ( Status 'Guest Bath Light' is On Or Status 'Upstairs Bathroom Light' is On Or Status 'Kitchen Lights' is not Off Or Status 'Bathroom Pump Motion-Sensor' is On Or On Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri From 5:15:00AM For 2 minutes ) And Elk Area 'The Home' 'Armed State' is not Armed Away Then Run Program 'Pump2' (If) Else Stop program 'Pump2' Set 'Pump Power' Off Pump 2 If Status 'Guest Bath Light' is On Or Status 'Bathroom Pump Motion-Sensor' is On Or Status 'Upstairs Bathroom Light' is On Then Repeat 100 times Set 'Pump Power' On Wait 2 minutes Set 'Pump Power' Off Wait 10 minutes Else Set 'Pump Power' On Wait 2 minutes Set 'Pump Power' Off Wait 10 minutes Repeat 100 times Set 'Pump Power' On Wait 10 minutes Set 'Pump Power' Off Wait 20 minutes I still think there is some fine tuning that can be done here but this is what I have for now.

A couple of things... -I have now incorporated from 5AM to 6AM into the programs. If I go on vacation it will continue to run during that time but not if the alarm is armed. -I have a pretty sophisticated Grundfos Alpha pump and I'd rather not turn it off and on every two minutes. Also, keep in mind, if the pump runs 2 minutes the electric heater is flushed with cooler water and will run for 20 min since it has a 20 min reheat time. The pump is 16 watts and the electric tank is ~1400 watts so the electric heater is my main concern money wise.

I think this would be the best solution. So lets say I wanted to run the pump continuously, or better yet 20 min on and 20 min off, from 5 am to 6 am M-F. How would the program work then avoiding conflicts? Could I just add that to the "if" statement of your 1st program? It would then run the "else" of your 2nd program right?

I ended up going with a program like this but altered the wait times a little. Thanks for the help!

My water lines are all under the house...in the crawlspace. So I'm not losing heat into the house while cooling the house. I want instant hot water and I'm willing to run it more than required to get that result but I don't want to run it 24/7. Good points in your posts.

Thanks for all the input. My goal is to get the recirc line hot for about 4-6 hours per day. At that amount I think the electric heater is justified. My pump is 2 GPM. Notice in the schematic the instructions call for a timer. So this setup isn't intended only for 24/7 use but I get your point. I think there's a sweet spot somewhere as far as the amount if time run per day and the benefit of not taxing the hell out of the tankless heater. Maybe I could run the pump and electric heater when a light or motion is turned on, then have the heater turn off after about a minute until the light or motion is turned off. At that point I could have the electric heater turn back on and the pump turn off. The heater doesn't cost much unless there's water being pumped through it due to the heat loss in the pex. After a minute or so the water would be getting hot from the tankless heater. Actually, that wouldn't work because my return line goes back to the electric heater and not the tankless heater. Shoot, I thought I was on to something there. The time for the water in the recirc line to cool will differ drastically from the summer to the winter. I'm afraid the winter months will be vary costly. I'd like to get it down to $10-$15 per month. Your program should help do that!

I installed a unique hot water recirculation line that has both a tankless water heater and an electric heater with a 4 gal tank. See diagram here: http://www.houseneeds.com/learning-center/tankless-water-heaters-how-to/ariston-electric-mini-tank-recirculation The purpose of the small electric heater is to keep the recirc line warm when the pump is on. The problem I'm having is the pump cost about $1.32 per month to run 24/7 but the electric heater would cost $45 per month if ran 24/7. Now I'm not planning to run them 24/7 but my focus is on the heater and the timing and temp of the water in the heater in addition to the temp of the water in the recirc line. Also, my recirc line/loop has ~2.5 gal of water in it at all times. When the pump turns on the cold line is filled with hot water and the electric heater is filled with cold water that was in the recirc line. If the water in the bathroom is turned on, that colder slug of water will then exit the electric heater and go into the recirc line while the electric heater is then filled with hot water from the tankless heater. With this said, I need my program to minimize the potential cold water slug that could get into the recirc line before it's heated into the electric heater. So the pump needs to run for enough time to get all the water in the line and the electric heater hot before the person turns the water on. This will be difficult when someone enters the bathroom as they may use the hot water within seconds. I have an auqastat I may install so that even if the pump is on it will turn off when the insulated PEX reaches a certain temp. The problem with that is if a program turns the power to the pump off after the stat turns it off then the pump wont turn on when the stat tells it too since the program has turned the power off. So that could also be a conflict. The bottom line is I want hot water when someone turns the hot water on or installing the system will be a waste of time. I also don't want to spend ~$50 per month for instant hot water. I didn't realize the electric heater would use so much power or I would have never installed it. The other thing is I could turn the heater off and leave the pump on if needed. I have a zwave outlet module for each. This is how I know how many kWh each is using. Thanks for reading this and taking this into consideration. What program changes would you make knowing these details? Thanks for the help and I hope more will chime in

Thanks! If I put the programs in a folder and set the folder condition to make the folder inactive if the Elk is armed away couldn't that potentially leave the pump on? Lets say pump1 is running the "then" status and the alarm is armed. The program would become inactive leaving the pump running, right? I like your program. Maybe I could add the alarm condition to your program as an "is not armed away".

I've having a little trouble figuring this one out. Basically, I want to run my recirculation pump based on the following... If kitchen light is on run pump for 20 min then turn pump off for 30 min and repeat until kitchen lights are turned off. If the guest bath light is turned on turn pump outletlinc on, when light is turned off, turn pump off. If the master bath motion is on turn pump on, when the motion is off, turn pump off. I also want the pump to be off when the elk is set away regardless of any lights or motions. This is what I have so far... Pump1 If ( Status 'Bathroom Pump Motion-Sensor' is On Or Status 'Guest Bath Light' is On ) And Elk Area 'The Home' 'Armed State' is not Armed Away Then Set 'Pump Power' On Wait 10 seconds Set 'Pump Power' on Else Set 'Pump Power' Off Wait 10 seconds Set 'Pump Power' Off The 2 "on" commands in the "then" and the 2 "off" commands in the "else" just guarantees the pump does what I need it to. It's basically insurance against bad comm issues which are very rare but can happen. Pump2 If Status 'Kitchen Lights' is not Off And Elk Area 'The Home' 'Armed State' is not Armed Away And Program 'Pump1' is False Then Run Program 'Pump3' (Then Path) Else Run Program 'Pump3' (Else Path) Pump3 If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set 'Pump Power' On Wait 20 minutes Set 'Pump Power' Off Wait 30 minutes Run Program 'Pump3' (Then Path) Else Set 'Pump Power' Off The kitchen light gets left on a lot hence toggling the pump off after 20 minutes. I want to make sure when the master bath motion is on and the kitchen light is on then the master bath motion turns off the pump continues to stay on since the kitchen light is on. This set of programs doesn't seem to work very well ie. when Pump1 is false and pump2 is true the pump turns off. Also, when pump2 is true and pump1 runs true the pump turns off because of pump2's else command. And if someone is in the master bath room and the motion is on and the kitchen light is turned off the pump is also turned off even though pump1 is running true. I was hoping you guys could help me with a new set of programs that would work better. Thanks in advance for the help!

Oh ok...got it! Thanks again!

Thanks Xathros! #1 isn't an option as I'm trying to build my zwave mesh. I guess I'll have to go with #2 unless there's plans to fix this soon in a future ISY firmware update. I was trying to offset issues such as this with this thread... http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=14722 I guess I got my answer to what the best switches to use. I'll just have to send them back. Can anyone confirm Leviton does support status change on local control??? Thanks guys!

Thanks for the reply! The zwave switch that does locally activate the program (sometimes) is the closest to the ISY so this does make sense! Hmmmmm...A program to run once per minute wouldn't work here since the pump needs to be turned on immediately after the switch has been toggled. Ie. I walk into the bathroom to wash my hands. A program to query 1/min would run the program after my hand are washed. I just had pretty involved and costly recirc system installed but it's going to cost me about $50 per month to run it 24/7. I need a way to get the benefits out of it while minimizing the electric cost. Therefore, the time between turning the switches on and the pump turning on needs to be very minimal. Any thoughts on how to accomplish this? Thanks! BTW, I'm running 4.2.2.

I'd like to press G to lock the door and H to lock the door and arm the alarm.

I have a remotelinc mounted to the wall in the garage and it's set as 4 scene. I would like to use the bottom buttons (G-H) to arm the alarm or lock the kwikset zwave deadbolt. I suppose I could change it to 8 scene toggle if needed. Basically I would like to press G and have the deadbolt lock or press H and have the door lock and the Elk arm. I can't seem to come up with a program to work since if H is pressed it would lock the door and arm the alarm then if I unarm the alarm and unlock the door using an access code then later press H the status wont really change to trigger lcoking the door and arming the alarm.. I'm kinda stuck. Maybe it's possible with variables so how. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

I'm trying to turn the hot water recirculation pump on when a kitchen, or bathroom light is switched to on and turn the pump off when the light is switched off. The Insteon switchlincs work fine but the Z-Wave switches not so much. I can control the zwave switches just fine from the admin console so it's not a comm issue with them. When I press the switch in the upstairs bath to the on position the pump will turn on and when I press it off the pump turns off most of the time and it's a zwave switch. SO that switch activates the program about 80% of the time. The 2 master bath light switches are also Zwave but they are not turning the pump on and off at all (I think they did once but that's it). This is the program I'm using... If Status 'Guest Bath Light' is not Off Or Status 'Kitchen Lights' is not Off Or Status 'Master Shower Light and Fan' is not Off Or Status 'Master Bath Light' is not Off Or Status 'Upstairs Bathroom Light' is not Off Then Set 'Pump Power' On Else Set 'Pump Power' Off The odd thing is I can control all the zwave light switches with the admin console just fine and when I do they then activate the program correctly. The problem is when I try to do it locally. Any ideas on how to correct this? Thanks!

4.2.2 Here.

I'm having the same problem.

Thanks! Time to build the mesh ☺

Since Z-wave doesn't have powerline communications would it be less susceptible to interference and signal sucking? Thanks!

Thanks! Generally speaking which has the best range and less communication issues (zwave or insteon)?

My crawlspace isn't conditioned so the humidity does get high at times. My ISY is probably 80 feet away from the location of this outlet. The ISY is on the 2nd floor and the outlet is in the crawlspace so a few walls between the two in that 70 feet. I have dual band Insteon devices right above this outlet on the 1st floor. I will for sure be leaning toward Z-wave devices in the future though. If I had several Z-wave and Insteon devices like I will soon which would be better for this application range wise...a Z-wave or Insteon outlet? Thanks!

Hey Guys! I’m putting in a hot water recirculation line under my house (in the crawlspace) in South Carolina. I’m looking for an outlet for the pump that I can control with the ISY. Since no other home automation device will be in the crawlspace it will need to have good range and I’m not sure if Insteon or Z-wave is better range wise especially with the latest ISY update. I have lots of dual band Insteon devices and 1 Z-wave Kwikset lock that works great, but none in the crawlspace. I plan to add more Z-wave devices soon. A couple outlets I’m thinking about… http://www.smarthome.com/75514/Aeotec-DSC24xxx-ZWUS-Smart-Switch-Z-Wave-Appliance-Module/p.aspx http://www.smarthome.com/59488/GE-45604-Z-Wave-Wireless-Lighting-Control-Outdoor-Module/p.aspx http://www.smarthome.com/2634-222/INSTEON-On-Off-Outdoor-Module/p.aspx http://www.smarthome.com/2635-222/INSTEON-On-Off-Module/p.aspx It doesn't have to be one of those 4. Which outlet do you recommend? Thanks for your help!

I don't really see what the debate is about with thermostats. The Venstar has been working for me flawlessly with the ISY. I wouldn't change a thing. I highly recommend the Venstar stat!