lilyoyo1

Every house is different so a person can't tell you what you need without seeing things. Walls, furniture, turns, etc. will play a part in your network. See the tips and tricks for more information

If you're adding zwave anyway, you'd be building your mesh network so you don't need repeaters since all hardwired devices repeat the signal. Lutron is great but cost 4-5x the price of a single zwave device (unless you go with caseta), and you still have to build out your network There's no perfect scenario.

It's been down from a lot of other places that it was on. The Nokia hub stopped working a week ago

Of course there were less sales without the PLM. But if a company was already struggling prior to that, i highly doubt they wouldve sustained themselves. At the end of the day, they still didn't have any other product to sell. The PLM didn't change that

I said it then about them shutting down changes nothing for me and it still applies. My system is still running fine with them shut down. I stopped installing them 2 years ago so it doesn't even impact me business wise. I have enough backups to cover old customers that are still within my coverage timeline so I'm good regardless. For me, Insteon leaving simply means 1 less option for end users. I was already planning on swapping to control 4 until ra3 came into the picture. I wanted to stick with insteon for their new line until I found out they wouldn't release the API for 3rd party. I hoped they would've managed to get through this but unfortunately they didn't.

Crow tastes like chicken. The truth always came out to those i like on here. I always told certain people more than I said on the forum. With that said, I can only repeat what was said to me based on the information they had as well. Obviously a move like this comes from the top and generally they don't tell employees their intentions until it's too late.

The PLM had nothing to do with their downfall. They have a letter to their customers detailing issues that started years before then

See the tips and tricks in the zwave sub forums

I wouldn't hold off for 800 series. 700 series was released 3 years ago and is just starting to gain traction. It'll be some years before mfg start producing 800

I don't know of any 700 series micro modules but I know aeotec and fibaro makes them

Their downfall started waaay before that.

It happens with my keypads

Anyone can make a controller to operate insteon devices or their own insteon switch. That isn't infringing on insteon patents or copyrights. The second you use one of their chips for your product or duplicate the protocol, you've crossed the legal threshold since insteon owns the rights to the code which is protected by copyright law

Someone else posted them too

What does din rails have to do with anything? The load controller was for a variety of situations not for centralized lighting. Either way, outside of some very specific use cases, the din rails wasn't that big of a seller. During it's 3 year run, they had 3 or 4 shipments come in of a few boxes

Pretty much old news though he has some incorrect info. The protocol wasn't reversed engineered to work locally. It has always been a local first system

I agree with you about the insteon not worth being bought back though i don't think alot of hypothetical and wishful banter on a forum is going to make the price jump or bring another buying into the mix. I don't think Shelly is a good comparison to insteon. What's comparable is zwave as both insteon and zwave are both geared towards similar types of customers. Shelly using WiFi is because it's a wifi based device. All the other additional features are geared towards their desired market. I personally don't think UDI should resurrect insteon (moot point since Michel already stated they wouldn't). I'd like to see them keep the Nokia line going under their name. This way they have a few devices they have full control over similar to homeseer, aeotec, and fibro.

I'm not really sure where you are getting your information from as there are many falsehoods in your statements. Insteon devices are already cheap. Comparable to other zwave device makers at the same level of quality. Of course there are cheaper switches to be had. However, the ones at a lower price that are also high quality is very small. There are outliers but trying to play the race to the bottom is a fools game. Not sure about making things smaller being an issue. They already have the smallest devices on the market so I doubt that size matters...Otherwise people wouldn't have been using zwave. They did improve quality over time. Early on their stuff sucked. Quality was atrocious but there is a huge difference between the last 5-6 years and previous iterations (PLM took longer to solve). Voice assistants- they were an early adopter. The hub 2 has been working with Alexa and Google for years. They had a homekit compatible hub from day 1 (though it and homekit sucked) so I'm not sure how they didn't adapt to voice assistants. They had a 240v load controller that could operate pool pumps. However, most people with that type of disposable income were going to use other systems not insteon. There's a reason why none of the big boys such as Control4, Savant, Crestron, and Lutron do not make them and only 1 zwave mfg. does. People with disposable income will use pentair, jandy, Haywood, and some others.

Did you click on his link in the post and log in?

You are correct. The current base is their best asset. But that doesn't mean continuing to throw money at a bad product to appease that base. Especially if there is a replacement device that's better. You said it yourself. You've grown to over 100 devices. How many more will you actually add compared to a new person just buying polisy for the first time and seeing UDI switches that work with it? If they dont buy insteon what are you going to do if a device fails? Replace it with something else. So what's the difference in doing the same with Nokia switches? You're probably correct about those with a dozen devices. That was my point earlier. While still costly, that's not too large of a number (only 600 bucks) that you can't start over (or move old devices to less used areas...

Yes, that would be an infringement which would then be illegal..

My experience is the same as yours. Though i upgrade stuff often, I'm typically pulling old stuff out and putting it in friends and family homes and they're still going without issue. The only thing I'd say I do different than many others is install a whole home surge protector. My house also has one at the meter. I stopped using the fanlinc some time ago and switched over to an off/switch. Most clients were installing DC fans (wife swapped our out too) and rarely changed fan speeds anyway.

All bets are off anyway. Just to keep things simple, lets look at this forum. Most users already have full systems. How many devices are they really going to replace? Hub users who stay with the hub are probably set with the devices they are buying as well. Either they've done their whole home already or they're in the beginning stages which makes swapping out much easier. As you've already stated, many will already be gutting their systems which means a lot will go to ebay anyway to save money. Those same people who are gutting their systems will be looking at other stuff as well...why not UDI switches....especially if they decide to use Polisy and know that they will have the devices needed to fill out their system. Reality is, they are not going to capture everyone regardless of what they do. Someone will be unhappy with whatever path they choose. Because of this, new sales is paramount for success vs focusing sales on existing customers who will purchase a smaller number of devices. Existing customers are being acknowledged by them simply being willing to try and buy the company. If thats not enough for existing users to support them then nothing will. Besides that, they could offer a discount to existing users to trade in devices. 30% off is one heck of a deal to get people to be willing to switch. As much as people complain about insteon not doing anything new or different, here would be the perfect opportunity for them to get something new. Im not saying to continue using the Nokia name. Im using it here to differentiate between the old insteon line and new. If anything, they are better off putting as much distance between anything insteon had their hands on. I get why you feel they should stick with the old but thats an emotional thought based on individual lifestyle. Business isnt that. Its cold and UDI must be forward thinking while trying not to distance themselves to much from their main base. They have to think logically about their next steps and what makes most sense long term for their future. Some will be please while others wont. Continuing the same simply isnt logical.

Larry is correct in regards to whether or not anyone would trust insteon which is why I'd rather then focus on Nokia (if possible). Easy to rename and the different look separates them from insteon. Since Nokia devices can be either a dimmer or relay, there are less skus to manage and maintain. It's 2 devices. A paddle and keypad. They can use the outlet if they choose but that's not a necessity even though it's much better than zwave offerings. They don't need them to look the same. If they do nothing what choices are current users left with? They'll be in the same boat regardless. At least this way, they have a path forward with something that works natively with their current setup allowing them to upgrade at their leisure

The point of buying insteon is to make money and in the process help users. It's not out of the kindness of their heart. That's capital/loans they could use on other stuff. That bill will come due at some point. I hope the focus would be on re-making insteon in their image vs trying to carry on insteons legacy. Personally I'd rather see them make the hub subscription based to recoup their costs and give hub owners time to move on from that device, vs trying to maintain separate systems long term. 20 bucks a year and move on. I'd let insteon die. After what happened and how, there's no coming back from it. Sure, users here may buy more devices but the name isnt worth much outside. It'll be hard for others not aware of UDI's reputation to trust it. I would keep the current Nokia line since the work is already done and rebrand it as UDI devices. Ditto with their own PLM. This separates them from insteon with an all new lineup that still works with older stuff. This allows UDI to sell new devices to existing customers looking to upgrade, and capture hub users looking to move on. In addition, they can also sell to other users of other controllers and license the technology to other companies should they choose. The main 2 benefits of this is that it allows for more sales which equals more money and allows their full vision of HA to come to fruition since they aren't beholden to someone else's vision like they currently are with zwave and other technologies. Trying to maintain 2 separate systems just because stretches themselves too thin without any tangible benefits. Sure, goodwill is nice but that doesn't keep the lights on.