shannong

Thanks for your feedback.

Any have suggestions for signal analyzers for Insteon? I saw the Smartlabs Insteon Diagnostic Keypad but that seems marginally useful especially because I want quantitative results. My primary goal is to identify and filter out noise. I'd like to measure noise and identify the specific sources and measure the impact of filters that I add. I realize that X10 and Insteon are different powerline frequencies, but are the X10 analyzers still useful for dealing with noise? I was looking at the units from Monterey and Advanced Control Technologies. Feedback on those specific products would be helpful. Thanks.

Maybe. The issue seems to be voltage spikes. For a ferrite bead to be effective, it needs to be made with the right material, wound the right number of times, etc to have an impact on the frequency that you're dealing with. No real way for me to approach that. I'm not an EE and don't have any diagnostic tools. I find using a surge suppressor an easier approach than buying a bunch of ferrite beads trying to find one that might work and/or finding the right number of them to connect inline with each other.

No diagrams. No surge suppressor work around to consider.

Sadly, I haven't heard from anyone at Smartlabs, yet. I'm going to call them on Monday.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm looking for success stories of thermostats used with the ISY.

We'll chalk this one up as YMMV. Glad it's working now. Enjoy your sensor now being off when the door is closed.

Probably turns off briefly as the magnet passes by the switch and then out of range. Does the sensor turn off if you place the magnet directly in front of the switch?

The analogy would be this similar question: If you have a modern car with Bluetooth on board and there's a button on the dash to tune the radio to preset Number 1, why can't you just use your phone to send a Bluetooth signal to the car to switch to the preset of button Number 1? You just can't. There's no interface, programming or otherwise to make it work as it's currently designed. Is it technologically possible? Of course. But currently there aren't any facilities setup to make that happen. Similarly, the 2441TH only allows Energy mode to be turned on/off locally with the button. [ unless you know the frequency of the line noise which causes it to change. ] The 2441TH does not send a "I just entered Energy mode" message either even though it send messages about other changes that occur locally. Just like it also only allows you to set the Energy variance to one but does not allow zero. That's just how they made it (unfortunately). The ISY team can't change that on their end. One interesting note, Energy mode changes Heat and Cool set points at the same time when Energy mode is turned on/off. Those set point changes are sent out as individual Insteon messages. Detecting changes in Energy mode would be more easily noticed if looking for both changing at the same time.

Currently the thermostat lacks a way to turn on or off Energy mode except through pushing the physical button so there's nothing ISY or anyone else can do to resolve this directly. You could monitor the temp change and change it back with the ISY, but I dislike that sort of workaround. You can also change the Energy variance to be a single degree rather than four to reduce the impact of this bug. Unfortunately, the variance can be set to zero. It would be trivial for Smarthome to update the firmware to add a local or Insteon-accessible configuration option on the thermostat to disable the Energy option completely.

I've been carefully monitoring this behavior, and I believe I've identified the problem specifically. I'm now very certain the issue is caused by noise/voltage spikes on the line coming from the HVAC system as a few others speculated. I have a gas furnace. When it cycles on, first the circulation fan for combustion chamber turns on to flush any gases that might be present. Then the electric igniter begins sparking 3-5 times a second just before the gas valve is opened. Lastly, the blower turns on to begin circulating air through the ventilation system. The Energy mode turns on/off when the electric igniter begins sparking. I have tested this about 15 times. Energy mode turned itself on/off three times during those tests. Each time was when the igniters were sparking. Energy mode has not turned itself on/off during any other test or scenario. Since line noise is affecting the circuits of the thermostat, it seems a software fix won't be possible. Perhaps Smarthome can identify and provide an appropriate filter. Future devices produced would need to accommodate this known issue in the hardware. For those who already own the thermostat, Insteon could provide an option to disable the Energy mode completely. It's really not a good feature to begin with. The idea is the Energy mode would be used each time you leave/return to save energy. However, the button for it is hidden behind the door of the device so it's not convenient to use since you need to press it multiple times a day after opening/closing the dorr. To be useful, the Energy button would need to be accessible on the outside like the Mode button which is very rarely used. The Mode button is probably used less than once a month yet is front accessible. Also, those buying the thermostat are obviously interested in home automation so they wouldn't be using the Energy option anyways but instead would have their home controller adjusting the set point. It is my opinion that SmartHome has not acted responsibly or in the customers' best interest with these thermostats. The product reviews on their own site reference many problems with them including this issue. Forums on smarthome.com and other 3rd party sites for controllers (like this one) reference this problem with many saying they did contact tech support for Insteon about this issue. Several said they returned theirs due to the issues. There was even a SmartHome representative active on this thread (SteveL in Jan 2013) who was participating in the discussion and said he would get back with everyone but he did not. So there's seems little doubt that Smarthome is aware of this issue before now. My current thermostats were produced in Sept 2013 well after these issues surfaced. I've sent almost the same message to Smarthome in reference to my active case and asked them to call me. I'll update those here with any new info.

It would be nice to hear from others on the post what make/model their HVAC is. Does anyone experiencing the problem with the changing set point as a result of the Energy mode engaging NOT have a gas furnace?

All, Venstar has released an RESTful API for their 58xx/59xx/68xx/69xx thermostats that feature full LCD displays. I create a poll to gauge interest for the ISY team to develop support for them to add another thermostat alternative for ISYs. So far, the thermostat options in an ISY only setup are limited. If you interested, please jump over to the Product Request section and vote. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13241 Thanks. -Shannon

Agreed. It is independent. However, my ISY did see the set point change when Energy mode magically turns on/off. ISY doesn't know about the Energy mode but when I looked in ISY it showed the lower/higher temperature of the set point that resulted. I can't test or validate that again right now though because I have my 2441TH linked with HL to send SH some logs.

Michael, Can you please clarify the "left" mode that remains? Was that a typo that you're still having issues with Energy mode (leaf) enabling/disabling itself even with an external 24V power supply?

I thought the same thing at first, too. But if you are writing a program to change the temp why setting "Energy" mode On/Off then you could just as easily and with more flexibility tell it to change up/down by 4 degrees. Or 3. Or 2. etc. The only reason I would want this ability right now is to combat the bug where Energy mode auto-magically turns itself on. Basically, I'd be asking for a feature to be added on ISY to combat a bug by Insteon. Didn't seem like a fair request. I do wish that ISY would implement all features of Insteon products when they are added to the "supported" list.

I'm also having this issue with 3 different 2441TH thermostats that are from two different production batches. This last one I didn't even add to ISY or any other controller to verify that it just does it on its own. Do all those with this issue mind sharing what your HVAC system is? Also, do you use 5-wire from HVAC system or 4-wire with an "add a wire". I have a 5-wire setup. I have a new case open with SH about this. They want me to collect some logs via HL. I don't see how that will help since it does it on it's own without interaction. HL will just show the changes being sent back. I'll update with anything new that I learn.

I don't have one and am not familiar with ISY network resources. However, I'm excitedly wathcing this post. I'm looking to dump my Insteon thermostats and like the idea of network integration with a pretty thermostat like the T6800 vs trying to choose a Z-wave thermostat and upgrading my ISY to support it.

If you don't expose it to directly to the internet and have secure wireless then you're safe. Your problems lie elsewhere. This of course ignores other vectors when root kits or other malware provides remote access to laptops/PCs in your house. Your family and friends visiting malicious websites and getting infected with something is your biggest threat. Then hackers use those devices to have internal access to your house including watching keystrokes as you type in passwords to other devices like the ISY. Encryption sessions such as TLS doesn't help with that. Obviously if you expose your ISY directly to the internet (usually via port forwarding) then follows Mike's excellent recommendations. Ultimately, anything you connect to the internet can be hacked and poses a real threat regardless of whether your using an encrypted session to it. Since mine is also integrating with my home security system I only access my ISY over VPN when not at home.

This is done without IIS. It's possible with IIS to have it act as a reverse proxy using URL Rewrite and ARR, but it's way more complicated than necessary and problematic to use with applets vs actual websites. If you're working with one IP, you just need to setup a port forwarding rule on your router so that connections to PublicIP:Port connects to PrivateIP:Port. You probably need to pick another port besides 80/443 since your router and/or IIS are already listening on it. Assuming you're using the default port 80/443 on ISY, just pick another higher port and create forwarding rule like this. PublicIP (router IP) :1.1.1.1 PrivateIP (ISY): 192.168.1.8 1.1.1.1:8080 -> 192.168.1.8:80 1.1.1.1:8443 -> 192.168.1.8:443 Just put http://1.1.1.1:8080 or http://1.1.1.1:8443 in your browser when outside your home network.

When the KPL is Off, are both LEDs on the FanLinc for Fan and Light lit (green or red)? (assuming you didn't already disable them via Options) If not, it's not wired correctly to provide constant power to the FanLinc. In this basic configuration, the load wire (red) on the KPL has no use. The line (hot) wire that connects to the black on the KPL should also be connected to the "load" wire leading to the junction box above the fan. That way both KPL and FanLinc always have power to operate. The On/Off of the KPL is for scene control only and does not directly switch power. What happens if you connect the Fan lead to the light? Does it come on when turning on the scene for the light? Or test for 120V on the Light (blue) wire when you have the scene on. Have you tested directly turning the FanLinc-Light on from ISY vs testing through the scene? Does your light have a chain or switch for off/dim? Perhaps it's not on.

Probably. It'll be a simple test. Mount the switch first and see if it triggers open/close with the existing magnet. It's also worth testing your door manually to see how far it must open to trigger.

Technically it's possible but a really bad idea. I temporarily had HL and ISY managing a KPL. Getting it fully functioning without HL or ISY overwriting necessary links of the other was a trial and error process that took several tries. If for any reason HL or ISY rewrites the full link table on the device it would stop working from the other. I was getting some weird behavior from HL for Events that would be delayed 25 secs.

I also mounted mine on the header as in the picture from EricK. No reason to have it on the floor where it's harder to attach to concrete and potentially in the way. I mounted mine in the middle of the door since there's a plug in my ceiling for the opener where I also plugged in the IOLinc. The contact wire follows the rail of the garage door opener across the ceiling so the wire isn't even noticeable. Made it super easy to wire the IOlinc to the opener as well with just 12" of wire. I didn't bother with the giant bracket for the magnet. The magnet has two screw holes and I screwed it directly to the top of my garage door. The contact switch is designed to operate within 2.75" of separation and my gap is about an inch when closed. This means my contact will signal a door open with just an inch or so off the ground.