oberkc

I would modify bsobel's suggestion as follows: From Sunset to Sunrise (next day) Then Repeat 30 times fan on wait 30 mins fan off wiat 30 minutes <<<<<<<<< add this extra wait Else Fan off

I believe you have chose the commands that set the backlight levels of a keypadlinc, rather than turning on a specific keypad button. Have you created the scene with this keypad button yet? Once created, while in your program, select a new action>>>insteon/x10, select the scene that includes this keypad button, select ON for the on level.

That program is likely (in my mind) going to cause you problems. Your THEN path causes the program condition to retrigger, possibly interrupting the fade down. I am a little concerned how that fade command is reacting when the program retriggers. Unfortunately, i have never used the fade down command so am not certain that this is the case. The other possibility is simply that your ISY is not seeing the change in status of your office lights. If so, this represents a communication problem, rathr than a programming problem. For this I dont have anything to offer that hasnt been said many times here. Check for phase coupling. Make sure your PLM is not on a noisy circuit. Filter noisy devices. Etc....

Yes, you are missing a simple, but obscure problem. It did not help that,I was not as clear and precise as I should have been. I dont believe keypad buttons can be directly turned on or off. Instead, you must create a scene that includes the keypad buttons tha you want to come on (even if only a single button) and turn on the scene. Give it a try. I suspect you will find this works.

it does exactly as you describe: triggers from an OFF command, and evaluates false when triggered. When evaluated at other times (from other conditions/triggers) it evaluates as true.

I believe the answer to this is "No". It sounds as if you want these three buttons to come on if any (but not necessarily all of the) light is left on. This generally takes a program that goes something like: if status of light A is on or status of light B is on or status of light C is on etc.... then turn on keypad buttons I would also create a scene that includes all three buttons as responders. I would configure the three keypad buttons to non-toggle-off, and make all three controllers in a scene that includes ALL basement lights.

I probably knew that, but forgot. Yes, the problem I described manifests itself only with scenes. I have confused folks enough here, so I will stop.

I am not so sure. I have found the logic statements to be extremely versitile.

I was concerned that someone may read your earlier suggestion to put it into one of the momentary modes (A, B, or C) and conclude it did not matter. In this case, it might.

I would expect that sending an OFF command COULD cause problems if the relay is configured to respond to both ON and OFF commands. No?

In what momentary mode do you have it? What makes you believe that it does not "automatically turn off"? Understand that the status as shown on the ISY represents the last command sent to the relay, and not necessarily the status of the device.

Does it do what you want?

Programming, at any level, is an precise and unforgiving endeavour. The good news is that it will do exactly what you tell it...every time. The bad news is that it will do exactly what you tell it, regardless of whether that is what you want.

This can be done without variables if you would rather avoid it for now. I agree it best not to try to run before being able to walk. As a reminder, i offered you a proposed solution should you care to try it. I agree with one point about variables, however...they can help make it easier to visualize what is happening. Just remember, your KPL button is more than an indicator. You have also expressed interest in using this button to turn on and off your lights. Another observation I have is that it seems you may be trying to hit a moving target. I am a fan of working through your requirements...understaning what you want....before going too deep into a solution.

Erick, upon reflection of apostolakisl's comments, I believe he found a problem with your second program that I did not catch. If you were to toggle your KPL button before midnight, it would turn off the landscape lights. I suspect you would find this less than desirable.

No, I did not include this provision to manually turn landscape lights on. If you want that, you could modify the first program such as: if time is sunset-10 minutes and control KPL button is not switched off or control KPL button is switch on then turn on landscape lights else turn off landscape lights Simple enough. I see no problems here. If all you want to do is "keep" the lights on at midnight, then you have a little duplication. There is no need to turn on lights that are already on. But I think you may have devised a way to address all your concerns in two programs rather than my three programs. Nice! As I see it, this program would trigger at three distinct events: at midnight, at sunrise-1hour, and any change in status of the KPL button. At midnight, if the KPL button is off, the lights turn off. At midnight, if the KPL button is on, the lights stay (or turn) on. At sunrise-1hour, the lights will turn off regardless of the KPL status. Additionally, between the time of midnight and sunrise-1hour, the KPL button will toggle on/off the landscape lights. The only question I have for you is whether you want anything to happen to the landscape lights when you toggle the KPL at times other than between midnight and sunrise-1hour?

Is this not what you expected?

I would probably do it different, but based on concerns that you may not have. For example, is it possible that you don't know whether you are going to be late until after sunset-10? What happens to your programs if you toggle the KPL button ON after the lights are already on (it seems to me that you have some potential issues here)? What do you want to happen to the landscape lights if you toggle ON the KPL button after 1158 pm, but before sunrise (I did not address this concern, but you may want to)? Instead, I would probably allocate things a little differently. First, you always want the lights to come on, regardless of button correct? Start with this: if time is sunset-10 minutes and control KPL button is not switched off then turn on landscape lights else turn off landscape lights The program above will always turn the lights on at sunset-10 (regardless of KPL status) and will always turn them off when the KPL is toggled off These next two programs will automatically turn them off at specific times, based on the status of the KPL button: if time is 1158pm and status KPL is off then turn off landscape lights if time is sunrise - 1 hour and status KPL button is on then turn off landscape lights Hopefully, there are some ideas you can play around with.

I have only theories why the light does not go off at dawn. You want the light to come on, or to enable the response to the motion sensor? Is there any particular reason to avoid using the ISY built-in dusk/dawn timer? I am assuming that this suggests that you don't necessarily want the light to come on at dusk and turn off at dawn, but rather you want the motion sensor enabled between dusk and dawn. Change checkbox to ON only. Eliminate this scene. Create a program: if from time = sunset to sunrise (next day) and control motion sensor turned on then turn on porch light wait three minutes turn off porch light else turn off porch light If you would rather use the motion sensor light settings for enabling the motion, change the program to: if status dusk.dawn is on and control motion sensor turned on then .....same else ....same

The ISY does not "check" status on a schedule. ISY programs based on status are triggered when the status changes. If the status does not change, the program will never trigger. The only time your first program would trigger is if the status of either of the two devices in the IF condition change (or if you trigger the program manually or from another program). This program would trigger itself when either the GR Kitchen Lights or GR Island Lights status changes. For status, the cause of the change does not matter (whether a switch was manually changed or from other causes).

I vaguely recall that some of the older keypads do not allow secondary button ON levels of zero. Hopefully I am wrong.

I do not believe so. Hopefully, this will happen very rarely. This is the case at my house.

Shannong's experience with non-toggle off is as mine...the button will flash a couple of times, the turn off. It should work in a scene. At my house, it DOES work in scenes. Perhaps it is a bad device. If it is sending OFF commands, yet the LED is staying on, this would make me suspicious. Is it possible that there are other programs triggered by this button? Could this button also be a responder in another scene?

I agree with LeeG...this is not a program problem. There are lots of possibilities explaining the behavior. My first question is whether the ISY knows that when these two lights are on. Try turning them on manually and checking the ISY to be sure that it noticed the change in status. Do this several times. Does the ISY always reflect accurate status?

Indeed, you are not the first to miss this little detail. This is by design, as I understand insteon, and not unique to the ISY. The purpose of this is to allow multiple buttons to control the same scene, but have different responses. A scene might contain 10 lights, but you may want those 10 lights to be a different levels for, say, watching a movie, versus gathering around, or intermission, or snacks. You could assign four controller buttons to that same scene, but the levels could be set for four different purposes. Most consider this a valuable feature of insteon, I suspect.