oberkc

When I read: "My goal is to have all 3 sensors trigger an ON and not throw an OFF until ALL THREE sensors timeout (aka there is no more motion anywhere in the basement for X amount of time)." I understood this to mean to wait for all the motion sensors to turn OFF before initiating a countdown. It is for this reason that I was wondering aloud whether your solution met the stated need. In a practical sense, given that the countdown period is a known and fixed interval, it makes little difference unless one planned to routinely re-configure the motion sensor timeout period and did not want to fool with the program. (I don't know why someone would want to do that, but that would be for another day.)\ BTW, I prefer your solution, and is the one that I use at my house. This has the benefit of being able to use a scene to initiate the lights, but using the power of the program for deciding when to turn them off.

First, you need to decide IF you want to create a scene and, if so, what devices to include in it. What scenes you create in this case will depend on what program approach you take. In my suggestion, you would create a single scene that includes only the lighting devices (as responders) that you want to respond to the motion sensors. The program would react to the motion sensors (which do not need to be in a scene) and the program would turn on the scene that includes the lighting devices. As background, a "scene" is nothing more than a relationship between two, or more, insteon devices. With the ISY, a device in a scene can be a responder or a controller. A controller will tell all other devices in the scene to turn on or off. A responder will obey the commands of any controller within the same scene. By definition, a controller is also a responder and will also respond to commands from other controllers within the scene. All scenes created include the ISY, which is, by definition, a controller. Experiement around a bit. Create a test scene with one switch as controller and another switch as responder. Turn on the controller Switch. Watch the responder switch also turn on. Turn on the responder switch and note that the controller switch does NOT respond in kind. Delete that scene and create another test scene, with two switches, both as controllers. Note that when you turn either switch on, the other responds equally. In the case of your motion sensors, I see that most have responded by proposing a solution where a program turns on your lights. I think you will find this the consensus approach for this type of problem. The motion sensor triggers the program, the program turns the lights on and off. There is no need to create a scene where the motion sensors directly command the lights. IN your case, you wanted the lights to go off ONLY after ALL three motion sensors were off. This cannot be accomplished via a scene directly, and requires the conditional logic of a program (if ms1 AND ms2 AND ms3 are off) There are, of course, options where you can use a combination of scenes and programs, but understand that they programs and scenes can work together and things often don't work well if you have the wrong scenes defined with the wrong programs.

For the second example, it is fewer programs for a good set of features. Easy to maintain or modify. This would work best with the sensor in On only, Sensing mode (checked). It looks to me like franklyn7895's programs would accomplish the same as mine but using 4 programs instead of 2. These would also work best with the sensor configured for On Only, Sensing mode (checked) -Xathros Xathros, Correct me if I am wrong, but does not your suggested approach initiate the countdown based upon receipt of ON commands? I thought the request was for the countdown to start only after the last receipt of OFF commands. balla4eva33, except for jumper 5 (allowing external software control), you should forget jumpers. Use the ISY to configure your motion sensor. I will also throw in a suggested approach. Create a scene that includes the lights that you want to come on and go off. Then create a program: if status motion sensor 1 is on or status motion sensor 2 is on or status of motion sensor 3 is on then turn on lights scene else wait x amount of time turn off lights scene The tradeoff for the approach, above, is that there will be some unnecessary ON commands sent to the light scene. IN most cases, I would expect this to be not a factor. On the other hand, it should be pretty efficient from a programming perspective. In this case, the motion sensors must be configured to send both ON and OFF commands.

Troubleshooting rule number 1 for any computer device: reboot and hope that fixes the problem.works about 50% of the time.

I am glad it works for you. I have never been able to create a scene where some lights turn on in response to an OFF command. I have no explanation or understanding of how that would work. I am sorry. KPL Lights? Plural? Are we still talking about the nighttime button here? I must consider the possibility that this is beyond my ability to help out here.

So, your original problem is not solved? I think my suggestion was to set it to NON-TOGGLE-OFF and to write a program triggered from an OFF command coming from the nighttime button. What approach did you take, instead?

Great. Now you have a second problem. I am not sure that I accurately understand it. You have devices (switchlincs, togglelincs, inlinelincs, things like that) that now correctly turn off when you press the nighttime button. However, you have other KPL buttons that also control these same devices individually. And these other KPL buttons are not turning off when you press the nighttime button. Do I understand your problem correctly?

I have always assumed that this is because of the design of the KPL button. In a world without the ISY and similar type controllers, the only purpose of a secondary button is to be in a scene, since they have no direct control of any load. Interesting. I find scenes one of the more powerful features of insteon.

First things first. When you press your nighttime button, does it go off after a couple of flashes? Do the bedroom and stairs lights go on? Do the rest of the lights go out? Have you solved your original problem?

Do you understand how to configure a keypad button as NON-TOGGLE-OFF?

First, the only way that I know to have a KPL backlight turn off every time you press it is to put it into NON-TOGGLE-OFF mode. My experience is that this works, but apparently there are those who's keypads don't work consistently, so you will have to check that yours perform in this manner. Second, given that you keypad will be sending OFF commands, the only way I know to have lights come on based on receipt of an OFF command is to use a program. If control keypad button is set off then do whatever Third, you have a couple of options to do whatever. You can send descrete commands to each device you want to respond (turn bedroom lights on, turn stairs lights on, turn every other light off) . Alternatively, you can create a scene that includes all the responder devices, and the ON levels at which you want them to respond, including zero (turning off). Then send a scene on command. I would probably opt for the second option.

I find the ISY user manual accurate in this case. It can be found here: http://www.universal-devices.com/docs/p ... 0%20a2.pdf From the user manual para 3.2.4: Folders. Feel free to create folders to help organize your Devices and Scenes. Folders can be created by either right clicking on the Network node (located on the left-hand pane) and choosing New Folder, or using the New Folder icon located on the Administrative Console’s top toolbar. Devices and Scenes can be dragged and dropped onto folders, or simply right-click a Device or Scene and choose Move To Folder and select the appropriate folder to move it to. Folders can also be moved within other Folders to create a nested hierarchy.

It sounds to me as if you have a lot of things going on here, including some of these newer keypads that apparently don't stay on or don't turn off when in non-toggle mode. If you want one keypad button to turn off in response to another button being turned on, the one button has to be a responder in a scene with the other button, having the ON levels set to zero. Are you familiar with how to set this up? The only way that I know for this to happen, other than having one of these "updated" keypads that don't stay on is by a program, but I understand that you have no such programs, so I can only conclude you have one of these types of keypads about which everyone has been talking. Have you included the ALL OUT OFF button in the scene with the ALL OUT ON button as controller, with an ON level of zero? Have you taken some other programming action to turn the ALL OUT OFF turns off in response to a command from the ALL OUT ON button? My questions continue to be along the same lines. Keypadlincs don't automatically turn off (or on) one keypad button in response to commands from another. These features have to be programmed (using either ISY scenes or programs) by the user. I remain unclear what method you have used for this and am having trouble offering specific advice on how to fix it. My recommendation is to focus on one set of related buttons and getting this working (or determining that your keypadlinc does not work for your application). For example, consider the all-out-on/all-out-off pair. Specify what you want to happen when you press each button, including what lights turn on or off, and what other buttons turn on or off. From there, I suspect the smart folks around here can offer a solution, or troubleshooting method.

I am sure that there is, but I have never had a sense that this is a real-world concern. Flash memory has a life, based on number of read-write cycles. My suspicion is that there are other things that will fail before this becomes an issue.

I am with shannong and kman on this. Variables are an unnecessary complication in this case, and STATUS is the correct condition. The suggested progrm will actually do more than you ask. In addition to sending a notice at 9 if the door is open, it will send a notice anytime between 9 and 630 if the door is open, or opened, during this period. This appears consistent with where you were you headed using variables.

This is the way I would do it. I suspect that this cannot be done by scene, alone, so programs are the way. Yes, this could probably be done with fewer programs, and purdueguy has one good suggestion. No, not based on what you state that you want to happen. The "adjust scene"command would be if you are trying to change ON levels of a scene for a given controller. If, for example, you wanted to have the KPL scene controller turn on the lights to 50% at certain times of the day, and 90% at other times of the day, then you would use the "adjust scene" command.

I, too, prefer the reliability of sunset/sunrise times, but I can see where there is value in making adjustments for cloudy days and mornings. It might be nice to have lights on earlier if it gets dark early due to cloud cover.

This program neither allows or prohibits anything. This program, by itself, will simply turn off a device called 'Great Room / GR Night KPL' when the condition is met. If you are asking whether one could create a program that would turn a KPL button off in response to all "downstairs" lights being off and all "stairs lights" being on, the answer is YES. Whether this specific program could do so, it is hard to tell because I see not way to make a distinction between downstairs lights and stairs lights. It appears to me that you may be struggling with understanding or explaining your requirements. You originally stated that you wanted to be able to press a KPL button and have some lights turn on and some lights turn off. If your intention for this button is simply to have this response EVERY time you press the button, then put it in non-toggle mode and create a program or scene that sets the light levels as you wish. Now you ask: This is a different question, in my mind. Are you asking whether you can manually turn OFF the KPL button, or whether a program can be set up to turn off the KPL button in response to a set of conditions? Is this the same KPL button that is the subject of your original question? Perhaps it would be a good idea to restate your entire set of requirements for this KPL button.

if they are in non-toggle OFF mode, they should blink a couple of times, then turn off. If in non-toggle ON mode, they should blink a couple of times, then stay on. Is this how they are behaving? Yes, this is not surprising. If you want some buttons to turn off in response to presses of other buttons, you would have to create additional scenes, or add buttons to existing scenes. Perhaps it best to summarize everything that you want to happen when you press the various keypad buttons.

If control switch is set on Or control switch is set fast on Then Wait set time Set lights off Else Yes, a running timer will reset if the switch is turned on again.

Are you on your home network (same network as ISY) or outside?

Is it possible that both have an x-10 address assigned?

Yes, it could be a bug in one of the newer versions of software for the ISY. i do not recall any earlier problems reported like this, but perhaps nobody has yet to notice any relationship between lost links and program changes. Can you demonstrate the problem consistently? Can you recreate the scenario that resulted in your missing links? I must admit that the idea that a program change would have an affect on link records is hard for me to imagine, but my knowledge of the detailed relationship between the ISY and PLM is conceptual at best, and based on assumptions and knowledge from others around here. My sense is that the folks at universal devices would be more than happy to investigate the possibility, but that this will be a little difficult without being able to reliably demonstrate a problem.

. Not if you configure a button as NON TOGGLE OFF or NON TOGGLE ON Right click on the desired button within the scene. Is there an option to delete from the scene?

This was how I would have guessed as well, but this would have also been fine for this application. Of course, there would have been a couple of extra (and unnecessary) OFF commands transmitted, but I suspect this would have been unnoticed.